How Patrick Wind Optimizes Facebook Ads For Startups

How Patrick Wind Optimizes Facebook Ads For Startups


How Patrick Wind optimizes Facebook ads for startups

Here's what we cover:

1. Why Patrick was stuck and experiencing feast or famine income due to lack of focus, structure and a support network of other people doing the same thing.

2. Why you should chose a niche that you're interested in and passionate about. This is why Patrick chose startup businesses.

3. Why talking to your niche is the ONLY way to truly understand them and what problems, pains, fears and desires they're truly facing.

4. How Patrick discovered that startup businesses were so growth oriented that they were actually willing to lose money to grow using Facebook ads.

5. How Patrick stepped in as a consultant to help them make their Facebook ads profitable using the methods he learned in the Consulting Accelerator program.

6. How Patrick gets clients using LinkedIn direct outreach and referrals from his local network in Spain.

Patricks #1 piece of advice for other members:

Stick to the process and take action relentlessly, even when you don't see results early on. In the beginning it's like pushing a stationary train, it takes a while to get things moving but once it's got momentum it's away!

Also, NEVER give up! The only way you can possible lose is by giving up, so make it your attitude to never do it ever.


Transcript / MP3

Sam Ovens: Hey, everyone. Sam Ovens here, and today we've got Patrick Wind with us. And Patrick's a Consulting Accelerator customer and member, and he joined in October last year in 2017. And when he joined, he had his own consulting business, but it was really struggling to make money consistently. You had that feast or famine income, like that roller coaster ride. When his business was really making money, it was making about three grand a month and it was volatile. And since joining the program in October of 2017, Patrick's been able to grow to 12 grand a month and been able to really make things consistent and stable. And we were talking before and it looks like you're going to be scaling a lot more beyond this. So congrats on what you've done so far and really looking forward to doing this interview with you. Patrick Wind: Thank you very much, Sam. Thanks to you for your guidance and to actually helping me with this transformation. Sam Ovens: No problem. Why don't we start off with your niche? You said you help startups grow exponentially through Facebook ads. How did you come up with that niche? Patrick Wind: Yes. Well, thanks for the question. I actually worked in an ecommerce startup on my own here in Spain, Barcelona, and I invested over two million euros in Facebook ads. and I've seen on my own how a startup can really grow exponentially thanks to Facebook ads. And therefore, it was very, very likely for me to also consult other ecommerce startups, so that's how I started helping other ecommerce startups to grow exponentially. But then there was so so much demand from other sectors. And then I analyzed my past clients, and only half of them were ecommerce clients. I had a couple of app install companies. I had a couple of lead generation companies, and then I had to re-find my niche because the mechanics of Facebook ads, of course, there's some specific things in each branch, but what all of them really need is their current situation is they have Facebook ads with a cost per conversion too high, and they're not able to scale it with that cost per conversion, and they don't even know how to scale it. And I helped them to bring them from their current situation of Facebook ads that are not able to scale to have Facebook ads with a low cost per conversion and with high volume. And I think well, this transformation is independent of being lead generation or ecommerce or app install. So I redefined my niche to startups in general because the aim of a startup by definition is to grow and not linear but exponentially, and therefore, my niche is startups that want to grow exponentially. Sam Ovens: Cool. So why don't we start out with what you were doing and what your situation was before joining Consulting Accelerator? Patrick Wind: Yeah. Well, I'm actually from Vienna, Austria. That's where I started digital marketing at the university, and after university, I worked as a strategy consultant for McKinsey and for Simon-Kucher. During my studies and also during my life as a consultant, I suffered a long-distance relationship with a Spanish girlfriend, and so she convinced me to move together with her to Barcelona. And I quit my job as a consultant, came here. That's where I worked for the ecommerce startup, invested two million euros for the ads, but it was not as fulfilling as running your own business. I was just there, the performance marketing manager, but I had no shares. I didn't participate in their growth. I just had my salary. So after half a year, I decided that I want to see more, that I want to apply everything I learned at university, everything I learned in the consulting companies, everything I learned now with my performance marketing experience, and I applied that to, as I said, to other ecommerce companies, then lead generation, app install, and now I'm pretty well defined here in Barcelona for performance marketing in general for startups. Sam Ovens: Nice. So what made you interested in joining the program? You told me before that you had your own consulting business and the income was turbulent. What made you interested in joining Accelerator, and what was your problem with the business before? Patrick Wind: Yes. I don't even know where to start with the problems of my business. The biggest problem I guess was the lack of orientation, guidance, and the proof in concept. I literally had no one to talk to. My girlfriend, she works in a 9:00 to 5:00 job, so she wouldn't understand what my aim was with all of this, and I was super lost. I tried Amazon FBA businesses. I tried to do done-for-you services, [inaudible 00:05:23] Facebook ads, also did some Google AdWords. I was super lost, and I did not know where to focus on. And actually, to be very honest, that was one of the darkest moments of my life because I had a clear plan all the time, like six years of studies, then one year of consulting, and then a startup. So everything was clear, and then all of the sudden I was completely lost, and I had no one to talk to. I didn't have any mentor or something, and exactly in that moment ... It's a true story. And exactly one of those nights where I'd look on Alibaba to purchase something for dropshipping, one of those nights where I'm super lost, I receive a Facebook ad from a 26-year-old punk how just moved to Manhattan. I was like, "Okay. That's interesting. I also want to live in Manhattan and what I have to do?" I'm in Facebook ads industry, so I was very surprised by the long copy, which I then understood in week five. But I was surprised, and it made me very curious, so I read through the entire thing, and I loved the way, like three steps, how you can really generate a constant stream of clients, which was exactly what I was suffering from, because as we said, it was super volatile, super turbulent, and the last thing in the world I had was a constant stream of clients. So that was exact like current situation and desired situation, that was exactly where I wanted to go, not even knowing that there is something like one-on-one coaching or consulting, not even considering that I could do group coachings or online courses. And yeah, that was the moment when your Facebook ad hit me like at 1:00 am in the morning, and I even jumped into the webinar immediately. You got me hooked until 3:00 am honestly. I couldn't sleep. I was super ... everything turned around, and then the next morning I rolled in and I never regretted it a single day. Sam Ovens: Nice. Patrick Wind: True story. Sam Ovens: Why don't we talk about what happened after you joined? So we know where your business was, the problems you were facing then, and then you joined. What was your experience like after doing that? Patrick Wind: I started, of course, with the mindset program, and I liked that a lot. I mean, during my studies I also minored in psychology, so I really loved everything you said in that chapter. So that was very, very good for me. And to be honest, over the full course ... okay, first of all, I did not do it in six weeks. It took me two and a half months, three months, to go through the entire program, and I even skipped some of the videos that I then later on went back to every single one. And it actually made me laugh the other day when I week five, the Facebook ads program, when you even say in one of videos at the end, "Probably for the ones of you who rush through it, it doesn't make so much sense, but come back later on." That's exactly what I did. That was on the copywriting and yeah, and getting the golden mean and stuff like that. That was good. So it took me longer to go through the six weeks program, but what I honestly want to feedback you is that every time when I went back through the course, it exactly got me from where I was mentally, like I reflect all day long how I can improve, how I can work on myself, how to become better, and every time when I jumped into the course, it got me from the point where I got stuck and it brought me to the next level. And it got me to the next iteration status where I was able to reflect on new things. But it was excellent. On the scale from one to 100, let's say I got stuck at 60, and you took me to 62, which enabled me on my own to go further up. And that was amazing, and it still happens to me all the time. I thought that I know a lot about copywriting, but apparently I didn't. And I really appreciate your model on that. Sam Ovens: Cool. Thanks. How did you go about picking your niche? When you joined Consulting Accelerator, were you still in the exact same niche offering the exact same thing as you are now, or did that change? Patrick Wind: Well, it changed tremendously. It actually was not even defined. I didn't have a mission statement. I was just doing digital marketing period, like no value for no one, nothing defined. So that was already the first step to come up with ... Well, and I also only sold my hours. So there was nothing more than that. So that was already first step to get some structure into that, and so then I came up helping ecommerce companies but not only startups, ecommerce companies in general, which was not very well-defined. And over the past six months, I constantly work on that. I have it in my notes, and every two or three days I come back, have it as my LinkedIn, as my Facebook slogan, and I updated it at least once every two weeks. But now I'm pretty stable with, "I help startups to grow exponentially by optimizing their Facebook ads." I think that's already very much where I want to go. Sam Ovens: Got it. And so what were you doing before? What was your niche and offer before? Was it just generalist digital marketing? Patrick Wind: Exactly. Sam Ovens: Got it. And so let's talk about how you arrived at, first of all, picking the helping startups. Why startups? What led you to that? Because a lot of the people in the customer community, they're probably thinking, "Well, how do I pick my niche?" That's a big problem a lot of people have. How did you know that you were going to start with them? Patrick Wind: Yes. Several factors that led me to this decision. First of all, that's the one where I can relate to the most. What I do in my private life is exactly that. I read articles about startups. All of my friends, if they're not in the corporate world they are in startups. I actually started my own startup six years ago, so a very small one, still exists in Austria, but I already had this entrepreneurial experience during my studies. So that's the environment where I've always been my entire life, and yeah, so that's one point, so my personal interests. If you will ask me, "In which area would you see yourself in three years, five years, 10 years," I would not be able to tell you once specific industry like ecommerce or app installs or lead generation or branding or whatever. There's nothing that especially gets my attention, but the startup scene itself, that's something where I can relate to for the next couple of years, and that's where I'm going to work for sure. So anything related to startup is something that I will do for sure. So the question was just, "How can I contribute value to those companies," and that's what I nicely understood with your help over the past six months. Sam Ovens: Got it. You just chose something that you're passionate about and really interested in and had a little bit of experience in. Patrick Wind: Plus I had a good reference. Here in Barcelona, the ecommerce company, the ecommerce startup I worked for, they're one of the 10 biggest startup companies here, so that opened some doors for me. Sam Ovens: Nice. So we know how you picked your niche. Now let's talk about how you found the problem that that niche faced. How did you identify their desires, pains, fears, frustrations, all of that stuff? Patrick Wind: Yes. There is no other way in this world than to talk to your niche and listen carefully and listen also to the wording they use. That's why I included exponentially and my program is also called accelerator, so it's the Facebook Ads Accelerator, because that's what startup want. They like those kind of words. They like growth. They like things that are exponential. They like accelerating stuff. They want to grow fast. They use emojis like a rocket. This is their vocabulary, their slang, and everything is about ... The definition of a startup is a company that starts small and then it increases. That's per definition what they want. And also very close friends of mine, they run their own startup companies, and when I talked to them on a very deep level, it's every time what they desire. And actually, that's also the biggest fear, like external, internal fears. The biggest internal fear is that they are not able to scale the business and that they will fail on a personal and business level, and therefore, it's very catchy for them if you tell a startup CO or CMO that, "I will help you to really fulfill your dreams and to really have 50 employees, 100 employees, sell over whole Europe, have an international company." That's truly what they want. That's truly what motivates them every morning to get up. Sam Ovens: Got it. And so what did they really explain their problem as? In their wording, how were they saying that they were stuck? Patrick Wind: Yes. I mean, they basically used Facebook specific terms. They would say, "My cost per purchase, of course, cost per acquisition is so high, we don't know how we should invest more. There are other companies that spend so much more than we do." So for them it's like even without ever questioning what their return is, but for them just the amount spent per month or amount spent per year is an indicator for their successful company. And they were like, "This other competitor spends 10 times more than we do, and how can we spend more? If we would spend more right now, we are not even break even. We're actually losing money with our Facebook. It's getting a return on ad spend like 1.8 or 2.1 or something like that and spending 10K per month or 20K per month." And of course, they would not be able to spend 100K or 150K- Sam Ovens: Why were they spending money if it was losing? Patrick Wind: Exactly, and that's a wonderful question which perfectly demonstrates their mindset into the growth. Well, they were ecommerce startups, and they know that the more units they sell, the lower the cost per unit will be. Therefore, by maintaining this ratio of return on ad spend, lowering the cost of production, at one point of time they will become profitable. So by economies of scale, their unit costs will go down. So they basically even need growth and need to scale their business to actually become beneficial, to become profitable. Sam Ovens: Got it. It's still pretty backwards because they could, instead of rationalizing their losses by saying, "We need to keep losing money until the cost per unit comes down. Then we'll be making money," they could still lower the cost per acquisition now. Patrick Wind: And that's the value I contribute, and I help them to lower the cost of acquisition immediately and, therefore, be able to scale it with the ads that really work. Sam Ovens: Yeah, because I notice this happens a lot too. People who are good at building SaaS and products and good products and good businesses, quite often they're not marketers. There's product people and there's marketing people, and it's very rare to find a marketer who's good at making products. And it's very rare to find a product person who's good at marketing. Patrick Wind: Well, that's very true. Sam Ovens: What do you think was really stopping them from being able to fix this on their own? What was their blockage? Patrick Wind: Many things. First of all, I would say their lack of knowledge. They don't know about the blue swan, the red swan strategy. Well, many companies I have seen when I enter the current state and the desired state that their current state is basically that they have a couple of campaigns, one or two ad sets each with one ad in that simply because no one has ever told them to do it differently. So there is no A, B testing culture. They would never come up with 600 variations or 300 audiences simply because no one has ever told them, and they think that's the way to do it. And then on the other hand, even Facebook itself, most of the companies I work with, they have very close contact to the headquarters of Facebook, well, here in Dublin, the Europe headquarters, and well, I've also been there twice. And what they preach you there is actually interesting. I don't know what you think on that, but the most important thing that they teach there is that you have to cumulate as many data points as possible in an ad set to get those 50 data points per week to optimize the ad set. And no one really questions that. They just believe it, so they until different placements and different audiences into one ad set, which then performs well or not so well, and they don't even know how to optimize, and they can't even optimize because they would have five ad sets in an account that spends 10, 15K per month. So there's so many ways to improve. First of all, no one does this exercise of really getting an ad hypothesis, the one from the audience inside, to really come up with this Tower of Babel that you mention. No one does those exercises. They apply just a lookalike from the customers, have a little retargeting, and that's it. It's really valuable for those companies because they spend the money anyways, but I just help them to get double or three times the return they got before that. Ecommerce companies that don't have the dynamic product that's installed, so many, many weird things that I've seen over the past years. Well, months. Sam Ovens: Got it. So we know that you picked your niche because you were interested in it, and then you started talking to them. And other members who are listening to this, I see a lot of people ... sometimes they're trying to find out what their niche's problem is by looking at blog comments and things like that. That can give you an insight, but it's never going to give you the answer. Patrick Wind: Exactly. Yeah. Sam Ovens: Like you said, the only way to really know is to talk to them. The answers are going to come out of your market's mouth, not on the internet. So you've got to talk to people, and you did that. You talked to these people and you found out what their problem is. And so now you've got the niche, you've found out what their problem is, and then what made you confident that you could step in here and be a provider of the solution to this problem? Patrick Wind: Yes. Well, first of all my background of having scaled my own campaigns over six months. Out of the two million, I made eight million, so that was already good. So I had a proof of concept that I at least were able to do it with my own campaigns. And after that, I also did something. I don't know what's your point on that, but I also felt but at least it gave me a lot of confidence to get all the possible certificates that there are in the market. I did all the Facebook Blueprint certificates, so it's like those Google AdWords certificates but for Facebook. Well, actually no client ever asked me for that, but it just improved my own self-esteem and the perception of myself as a consultant in front of a client. You would get a lot of questions that challenge what you teach, and if you don't have a ... Well, I'm happy enough, and I'm honored enough to have you as a mentor, and I had week five which gave me a true blueprint, so that was good, so I had at least that to refer to. But many other consultants in their niche, they don't even know what is completely right or wrong. And if a client starts questioning you, it's hard to stand your man. But this way, with all the certificates, at least I know the official opinion of Facebook themselves. I know what a true practitioner with a couple of millions of spending and very successful spending does in his day-to-day life. So I have at least those points of reference that are ... well, in Spanish, they say they're like a sailing boat, like the one in the middle that's what holds everything together. That gives me a lot of guidance and self-confidence in my day-to-day life. Sam Ovens: Got it. Oh, and then how did you go about getting your first client? Patrick Wind: I actually thought about that quite often, and I still question that at least once per week, like how do I get my clients? What's the real process? And- Sam Ovens: Well, how did you get the first one? Let's just focus on one at a time. Patrick Wind: Yes. Yes. The first one I got by referral. Sam Ovens: And how did that happen? Patrick Wind: Yes. Well, I go to a lot of meetups and actually hold speeches at those meetups because the organizer are friends of mine. And one of those organizers introduced me to another ecommerce company at one of those meetups. And it's always very good when you're the speaker at an event like this. It doesn't matter how big the audience is. There were just 15, 20 people, and they were just introducing dynamic product ads, that it's a good idea to have retargeting dynamic and not static. And I talked about 10 minutes, and of course, when you're the speaker in a meetup like that, you already per definition have some kind of authority. And then when the organizer of this meetup goes to one of the participants and tells him, "Hey, this dude really knows something about Facebook ads. Did you apply those dynamic product ads in your own campaigns already?" He was like, "No." Well, let's try it out. And then I did well not a clear done-for-you but a done-with-you because they provided the feeds and stuff like that. But then we implemented the catalog and we implemented the dynamic product ads with them, and they were happy. And I think it went on that way ... and I also, one other little [inaudible 00:24:52] I never, so far, I didn't spend one penny on Facebook ads on my own to attract clients on my own, so paid attraction methods I never applied. I have many, many, many organic methods. Of course, I do direct outreach by LinkedIn and I actually loved your Facebook Live on Saturday about the new digital area of [inaudible 00:25:17] Sam Ovens: New age attraction. Patrick Wind: Exactly. That one. I loved that with the Facebook groups and LinkedIn groups. It's like almost number one of my priority list to do that right now because I loved it. Moreover, I also think that direct outreach by LinkedIn itself is powerful. It's incredible. I'm not sure how long this window of opportunity will be open because right now it's so easy. If you have a local market here in Barcelona, I think I'm connected on LinkedIn with every single CMO that there is in Barcelona. It's just reaching out to them. Then they accept you because ... and why there is a window of opportunity because right now LinkedIn, everyone wants to have more connections. So there is not the thing like on Facebook. On Facebook, I don't accept people usually, but on LinkedIn, everyone wants to have more connection. If you have a profile picture where you seem like a decent dude with some study, with some background, why would they not accept you? So they accept you, and then you have no gatekeeper, no secretary, nothing. You can just contact them with a short, precise, clear value statement. I always contact them like, "Do you want to increase the return on ad spend of your Facebook ads?" Well, I always say, "Hey, my name's Patrick. I work with this and that company already," so give them some proof of authority. "Do you also want to improve your return on ad spend? Then just have a coffee." And it's so easy, and that's how I got my past five clients was just by that. Sam Ovens: Got it. So the first one was from a referral from speaking at a local event thing. And then the rest of the clients have all come from LinkedIn direct outreach. Patrick Wind: Yes, and there's another big portion. And let me see what's your point on that. I somehow created a little, well, a referral system here with friends and ex-colleagues, and they get 10, 15% of my fee to bring me a client, and that worked very well. I also got five or six ... I made 15K just of clients that were referred to me from a friend of mine. So I think this entire referral marketing's super powerful. Sam Ovens: Nice. So first one was public speaking at a small event, only like 15 people. Then the second one ... I mean, the rest of them were direct outreach through LinkedIn, and then you've also had referrals working for you in there as well. Patrick Wind: Exactly. I think there is one very important thing that I want to mention that became so clear to me over the past months, and it's so fundamental. It's like this one graph where you have your personal growth. This is time. This is personal growth. And at the beginning, it's super linear and super down here, and then all of the sudden it starts to explode and it grows like a hockey stick. And there's so many things that then kick in. For example, my referral agreements, all of those are contacts I made in those local meetups, and I always felt like, in this phase down here, I felt like no one of them will ever purchase my service. They're completely useless. It's a complete waste of time that I'm here. Another Tuesday night at 1:00 am where I had to drink two beers with them just to be cool with those guys. And every time I felt like it doesn't bring me any return. There's no direct return of this investment of time and energy. But at the end, everything pays off, everything. When you stay focused, when you're working towards one direction, at the end if you stay with that, it's amazing. That's actually what you also said three weeks ago, two weeks ago. We have energy and just all those arrows, and if you focus everything towards one direction, it's amazing because everything will then kick into help you. Sam Ovens: Yeah, the momentum. Patrick Wind: Exactly. Exactly. Sam Ovens: Yeah. It's funny. Momentum, in physics, it operates with vectors. So you can't have momentum in multiple directions. It's like a train can't go forward and back at the same time. You know what I mean? Patrick Wind: True. Yes. Sam Ovens: So it's an actual law in physics. It's not just a principle that I teach people. I mean, it really happens like that. So to get that momentum, factually, scientifically, you have to be going in one direction. Otherwise, you just got resistance. Patrick Wind: Exactly. Exactly. Sam Ovens: So that's cool. And how long do you reckon it took you to get that? Because you said you were in that early stage where you had an exponential curve, which looks like a hockey stick. The start sucks, as a lot of people know. How long were you stuck in that starting flat curve phase for? Patrick Wind: Well, it took me at least eight months that I did it completely on my own where there was absolutely no clear sign of any improvement. As we said, those 3K per month, done-for-you, and volatile and no goal and no light at the end of the tunnel in short sight. That was at least eight months. Then I entered the program. Then I was at least super motivated and I had new insights, but it still didn't kick in immediately because you still have to do all the work. But then let's say another two months. But then after 10 months, there was ... okay, after two or three, because I already noted some traction in my business, but to really have this thing here was after three months that I joined the program. But it's also because it took me very long to complete those six weeks. It took me two and a half months. Sam Ovens: Yeah, well, for people listening, I mean this is a normal story. It takes a while for things to kick in. And when I started in parents' garage, I didn't know what I was doing. I went a whole year without getting a client. So when people go a few weeks and they don't get a client, I laugh because, man, it took me a year and I still managed to get here. So you guys are doing better than I was. So about three months for it to really kick. And what made you keep going during those three months, because I know a lot of other members they're probably in those three months right now, and they're probably like, "Why should I keep going?" Patrick Wind: Well, that's a wonderful question. Well, for me personally, I am an enthusiast about that. It's like my career goals are my number one goals with some priorities, how to set them in life. And for me, I'm obsessed with becoming successful. And if I can't achieve that, I wouldn't be able to look in the mirror anymore. So I don't know. For me, it's so important that I think about it every single night, and for me it's like I'm just super ambitious. A lot of time I had let go of direction, so no momentum, and spread my energy over way too many directions, like Amazon FBA, also Google AdWords, Facebook ads, and hundred different niches and nothing for real. So that was a big problem, but I was always 100% sure that there has to be more out there for me because I worked so hard, and I always tried to get the best for my clients. So that's another thing that's very important that you should not just look for yourself and never reach out to new clients just to get money from them but really think what's the problem and how you can add value to them and how can you really achieve that they're better off after working with you. Sam Ovens: Funny enough, that's the best way to get the money as well. That's what I like about it. You don't have to let go of it. I mean, that's the way to get the most of it. So we know how you picked your niche, found the problem, got your first clients, and all of that. Now let's talk about how did you come up with your pricing? Patrick Wind: Very difficult. Very difficult. I mean, of course you know they're three different levels like cost plus approach, competitive pricing, or value-based pricing. And I worked a lot on competitive pricing, so I know the prices. I know the benchmarks here in Barcelona, so that's what I charged, well, for agencies. Then I have a couple of friends who also do consulting on a one-on-one setting for Facebook ads. So I oriented my pricing on them and tried to increase now and then. And now for when we finally start with the group coaching, with the online courses, well, the price for the online course I have another benchmark here right in front of me. So that helped me a lot. And for the group coaching, yeah, there are also similar things. So to be honest, it's probably not the smartest way to come up with prices, but I oriented a lot on a benchmark. But what you should probably do, which is an ongoing discussion that I have with my two business partners, Adrian and [Mex 00:35:28]. Hey, guys. They're also in the Accelerator program, and with them together we start the group coaching. And they always say, and of course they're right, that you should just really think about what's the additional value that you will grant your customer, so if he makes now 10K on profits and if you help him to get 20K on profits, why wouldn't you not be able to charge three, four, or 5K out of that because it's just additional money that he wouldn't earn without you. And that's, of course, the even better way to see it. Sam Ovens: Got it. What was your first price when you first sold people? Patrick Wind: The first price for done-for-you was 10% of their amount spent with a minimum of 1,200. So if they would spend less than- Sam Ovens: 12 grand. Patrick Wind: Exactly. Exactly. It would kick in the minimum, and if not, then the 10%, which is super brilliant because it's 100% copied from an agency. And then for the consulting, it was very difficult because I have two friends who do similar stuff here in Spain, and they apparently are not in your program and they are not 100% client focused. I don't know. It sounds weird, but they're consultants who are not client focused. They just sell like one day costs 1,200 euros or four hours costs ... stuff like that. But that's not the value that the client gets. It can't pay one single employee more just because I'm there for a couple of hours. What they want is that the ads will perform better. That's everything they want. They want more return and the lower cost for that. That's everything they want. And therefore, I created a little two-week service, which is a hybrid of done-with-you and one-on-one consulting, and for that, I charged 1,690 for two weeks. But it was also because for me it was also ... well, it was difficult to communicate, and they even didn't believe it in the beginning that it has that value. That's why I included this two weeks of time that I'm there for you whenever you need me. You can call me. You can email me, just to give this additional value of because I was not confident enough to tell them, "One day costs, I don't know, 1.8. Two days costs 2.9." That's the pricing that I have right now, so okay, actually one day is ... Yes, exactly. One day is 1,800. Two days are 2,900, so 50% off on the second day. Because right now, I'm very convinced that in two full days I can deliver. I don't need two weeks in-between them where you can call me and where I can help you. It's basically I do the audit. I show you how to optimize, like blue swan and red swan, and I show that you need more ads in an ad set. I show them how to write compelling ads. I show them how to find new audiences. All of those things right now I'm very convinced and very confident that in two full days I can perform and I can deliver. And the clients, of course, they're super happy and they never requested anytime, "But Patrick, why aren't you staying with us for two weeks or three weeks or a month?" They don't care. They honestly don't care. The only thing they need are campaigns that perform better. Sam Ovens: Cool. You've gone from 3K a month where you've been up and down, feast or famine, to now having it consistently at 12 and you're growing. What has been the one most transformational part of the Consulting Accelerator program? Patrick Wind: The biggest change that really allows me now to have a constant income and also a better way to plan my week and to find time for my girlfriend and to have a better life, to be honest, was ... In the beginning before I entered the program, I just had one week or two week project with clients and then it was over. So there was just a setup phase, and I didn't even consider that they would need a consultant in an ongoing phase. So that was the big eye-opener for me, like this one [inaudible 00:40:02] that you had where you showed, "Okay, you need so many strategy sessions to generated setups for one week or two weeks and then so many ongoing sessions." And I was like, "What's an ongoing session? Why would someone need an ongoing session in consulting?" And I was like, "Hmm. Well, actually they do need that because the algorithm changes constantly. Every now and then, there are new tools. They get new employees. They have current new questions. Their campaigns stop performing." So that's when I changed my model from, "Okay, I have just one client. I make one or two grand from them, and then they are gone," to, "Well, I charged them even more in the beginning, but the big change is that I get the lifetime value from that, which is three, four, five times what their initial investment was. And the best thing about it is with those ongoing clients, I meet them on a weekly base. I have five or six in this ongoing phase, which give me a solid 7, 8K of ongoing income, and that makes your life easier because you can pay your apartment, you can pay your gym, you can pay everything with your current customers, with your ongoing customers. You have a fixed schedule with them, like I meet them Tuesday morning, Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday morning, Wednesday afternoon [inaudible 00:41:23]. And so basically just work three days, get 8K per month. And in addition to that, if I want to get new clients, I can do it on a Monday and a Friday. So it really helped me to get finally some structure in my life and also be able to plan in time for personal improvement, watch some new videos, and reflect on my personal journey. Sam Ovens: Nice. So really figuring out how to take just one-off things to recurring revenue engagements. Patrick Wind: Exactly. I mean, that's the big change. I would just take a look at the numbers, 12K and 8K from them are ongoing. What if I wouldn't have those ongoings? I would still be at 4K. So that's apparently the big game-changer. Sam Ovens: And then you've been in the program for a while now, and I'm sure you've seen the other members in there and the issues they're facing and everything. What would your number one piece of advice be for them? Patrick Wind: Never give up. Stay focused, and don't hate yourself if your niche wasn't the right one. You can always change that. It's just important that you get started. In my case, I had a lot of experience in ecommerce and I was like, "Yeah, it has to be ecommerce. It has to be ecommerce," and I even felt like saying no to lead generation or app install clients. And then at the end, I accepted all of them, and it was a great idea because some of those app install companies, they spend several millions and they're super happy. I was able to lower the cost per app install by more than 50%, and the value attribute I did to them is tremendous. They are going to be in an ongoing phase for several months, probably even years. If you have a niche and you get started and after a couple of weeks you get the feedback that it's okay ish but there's another niche that's also very interested, just give it a try. You can always iterate on that, but just stay motivated, stay focused, believe in yourself, and go forward. Sam Ovens: Awesome. Well, thanks a lot for sharing your story. I'm sure it's going to help a lot of people in the program, and it's probably going to inspire a lot of people outside of the program as well. So thanks for taking the time. Patrick Wind: You are very much welcome. It's actually midnight here in Europe. Sam Ovens: Thanks. Patrick Wind: Take care. Take care, Sam. Thank you.