Nick Hauser: Welcome everybody, Nick Hauser here and in today's customer interview and be sitting down with Patrick Wind. And this is actually a 2.0 interview, uh, Patrick about a year ago now was on here with Sam. So if you haven't checked out that interview, definitely recommend seeing that first to see his new transformation here over the last year. So the first thing before we dive into everything about Patrick and his, his transformation of less 12 months, uh, you know, how are you doing today? Boundary.
Patrick Wind: I'm doing very fine. Thank you Nick.
Nick Hauser: Awesome. So a little bit backstory, if you haven't seen that first interview. Patrick joined consulting accelerator. I'm in 2017, I believe it was October of 2017 and he did his interview around March in 2018 with Sam. And he got to the point where he's making 12,000 euro per month with his business. And then from that time he's been able to grow up the point now where he's making 30,000 euro per month, a 25,000 in profit and he has been able to drastically reduce his workload is service delivery, which is a really big thing. And one of the ways they did that was by joining up love consulting and starting his own online training program and transitioning from one on one to an online course and all throughout this process to Patrick's acts of being able to land himself on the Forbes 30 under 30 list. So he's got a spot there, which is really awesome. Um, so this is a cool one because we haven't done a 2.0 interview yet. So it was really cool to see somebody come from accelerator, then they join up level and now we're kind of here. Um, so tell me a little about like from the time that interview ended last year, were Sam, now what's been going on with your business?
Patrick Wind: Well thanks for finger very much on a nice intro, nick. Um, so the main thing that went on did, I did this little transformation from a one on one consulting. Right. So I never related the agency thing. I did one on one consulting mainly, and now I switched over to online courses and group coachings. And that's the big thing that really made it possible to reduce my workload and increase, uh, the profit. And as you very nicely said, it's not just about the overall revenue. Yes, last month was effort decane revenue, but most importantly was 25,000 in pure profit. So that's very nice.
Nick Hauser: Yeah. And for those of you who haven't seen the other interview, um, can you touch a bit about, you know, who you help and what that was in the one point interview and kind of how you shifted your messaging to right now?
Patrick Wind: Yes, very good. So I, I'm, uh, in the Facebook and Instagram ads niche and I started helping on the ecommerce owners. So my first, um, um, value statement was that I help ecommerce owners to scale the business by optimizing their Facebook and Instagram ads. But, um, when I started scaling my business, when I started taking on more and more people, um, I saw that this is a too narrow for my specific niche. So I went a little broader and our district, because I got many people enrolling to my online program, also interested in lead generation, more weapons stores and all other kinds of performance marketing activities. And if I broadened my niche a little bit, now it's uh, I help marketers to grow their business by, and not only more, and not only optimizing the went in words, but by teaching them advanced Facebook, Instagram it so they can do it on their own.
Nick Hauser: And we were chatting earlier, what is the importance you found with teaching them versus you actually doing it for them? Because a lot of people just see if they were going to maybe come on as a client. I think naturally some people think like, oh, I just want somebody to do that for me and I don't want to have to worry about it. But you kind of have different approach and what you really believe is best for them. Can you touch on that teaching aspect?
Patrick Wind: Yes, for sure. So Seo already said, and the main in the key problem is that they do not worry about anymore. And if they do not worry about anymore, the results are going to suck even though they externalize everything and why both basically for three big reasons, and that's one of my sales pitches when I do it, uh, to sell them the online course. First am nobody knows their customer in the product in the same way that these people know them. Even though I'm the Facebook ads experts, it will never change the fact that I do not know the customer. They do not know the product. And the same we did the at the day and all them second, every external person knows that you probably even, even if you have a little the revenue share from this company, but you basically operate on the minimal minimum principle.
Patrick Wind: The basically means you have 10 customers and you tried to reduce the effort you have to put in each of these 10 customers and in order to maximize your, your, your life quality in some kind of way. Right? So if you're an external person, he will always try to do the minimum to make them happy as happy as possible, but you will never do the extra miles to extra a bonus work. And that's what makes the difference, especially when it comes to face green sacraments running the additional three, four, five AP tests per day. That's what makes the difference. And of course, of course, if it's your own business on the weekend, you think about it, you come up with a new idea, you're testing your audience, test testing your grade. If you test the new copy. And that's the second argument. That of course helps them a lot, um, to get better results because he put more work into it.
Patrick Wind: And the third argument, if the externalize it and the performance marketing, every, eh, every small agency, every freelancer nowadays charges already more or less one grand per month. And that's a recurring cost for them per year of over 12,000 euros. And if they enroll in the program, they can compensate that in a very short time, right? So not only are the results better and effort they put in is significantly higher, but they also save a lot of money by just a learning. It's in house and then they acquire skill that you can also apply to other use cases.
Nick Hauser: Yeah, I think it's a really great point because it's, we talk about it a lot in these interviews. I'm in the training program and you've been part of up level. That's the biggest thing right, with done for you is when you're served to land clients and you get really good. You're trying to figure out, okay, how can I take all of these clients and like either do it myself or have my proven contractor here like helped me out a bit. But eventually, like you said, like you're doing just the mount. So they say, hey, this was a great month again, pat, thanks so much, but you're not, yeah. You know, really trying to push it now because you know won't do, which gives the the economics of how it works with the business. It doesn't work. I T I can scale that up. So you empower them in a way that you're still there for them and they're learning the proven methods in the systems, but now they can do with themselves.
Nick Hauser: They can hire a full time employee who can go the extra mile. And the other part to what you said was awesome. It was even if you're really great at Facebook and Instagram, nobody's going to know their business in their niche like they do. And that's why they have that niche and you have your niche understanding their needs. Um, but it's, it's hard for somebody to come on, especially if they're not good at Facebook or Instagram ads and they're going to try to, now they have to understand this whole new business is that you have to take on this other businesses problems in their niche and try to be next door to now. And that's where if you're not a specialist in one kind of done for you digital marketing, it's really difficult to be good because now you have to take on, you know, 10 different types of businesses, try to understand their niche and be like a Ninja with everything. And it blows up. Um, but, but back to you with where you're going with everything. So you leave the interview and you're doing one on one and what was the next big transition you made? I needed, we said you joined uplevel. Um, Kinda what happened right after that.
Patrick Wind: What happened right afterwards is that I saw a little shiny object to shiny object was a uda my course. So I fought wild. Thousands of people purchased Ecu to my courses. I thought I just have to create a little fancy UTA my course without the big own online program, but just the Uda my course. But it was all very, the first step towards the right direction. So launched it. And then I eventually found out that if you launch something new domain, you can sell it for $200, but you won't sell anything if you do not enrolled in the Uda. My a marketing program, which basically allows them to apply discounts high up to 90% up to 95% and only few enrolling the marketing program and you sell something, it's like a little Amazon Seo. If you're not in the marketing program, you won't be able to be on the first page for whatever kind of course.
Patrick Wind: And so they sell it for 11 [inaudible] 99 and from these 11 year and 99 you get 50% so my entire youth of my career was probably less than 1000 euros in profits and dumb. Then I thought, okay, cool, I should definitely rata to an online program and not just have it listed on an external platform because it also gives you the power to have all the contacts in your own database. You can, I worked them in a better way. You can put them in your funnel, in your email funnel, you can upsell them a future products. And so that was the first thing and my own for the first time recording material on my own the first time purchasing the equipment, like the nice mic and all of these things. Um, second step was creating croup. I'm COO physical group workshops, so I called him master classes.
Patrick Wind: I do them still now, once per month here in Barcelona. And in the beginning we only had 30 people. Then 40 people. Now we already have 150 people. The next one that we're planning, um, eh, in next month or where we expect 250 people because we make a big collaboration with DC. Well, so a big fashion brand and there's also free beer there. So that helps to bring a lot of people there. And that was, let's say that that was the second step. First, creating the first video content second and making it more scalable, trying to create content that is applicable to a broader audience. Therefore in your, uh, in your, in your knowledge a pyramid of course you have to go a little bit further down. It cannot be the very advanced and Nimic product retargeting ads or whatever because that's not relevant for a broader audience.
Patrick Wind: But it was a very good exercise for me to make my knowhow broader, to make it applicable for a broader audience. And um, that was good. And it also gives you a lot of social media content that you can use. It helps you too late their sell these online courses. If you have yourself in front of a crowd of 50, 60, 70 people, that helps to sell the online course, right? It gives you a 40. And Moreover, these physical masterclasses finally also gave me an argument to invest in Facebook ads heavily. So to get these, uh, these seats field, of course, I started investing my first 500, 1000, 2000, 3000 euros on Facebook ads and that gives you a little bit of retargeting audience that you can use to sell the online course. That gives you a little bit of branding anyways, so at least in the physical area, um, it helped to get the brand out there.
Patrick Wind: And then the third step was, and taking the demand of people coming to the physical masterclass and the knowhow of how to create at least the smaller OnDemand course and putting it together. I'm actually the third step was creating a little focus group. So I worked together with three, uh, three friends of mine who run their own, uh, actually run their own ecommerce. And for these free people, I tried to figure out what are the actual problems so that I could solve with a video course that I could solve with videos, tools and checklists and a support group. What is it that they really struggled in? What they struggled with two things first and they were not really, they, we're not really profitable with their ads. So the investor 10,000 euros and made, uh, 13,000 in return of 14,000. So return on ad spend of 1.3, 1.4.
Patrick Wind: And that's of course not ideal. There's on the one hand, they were not making money. That was the first problem. And the second was they were not, they were not able to scale that business when they're more in the moment when this started, instead of investing 10,000, 15, 20 or 30,000, return on ad spend even dropped below one and they were losing money. So these were the actual pain points. And then I said together with them for two or three months every week and they came up with new, with my research. I came up with new ideas, tested it within their accounts, then we finally found the golden rule. It's also not rocket science, but basically we correct the call a little bit. What can they do to bring the, Roy is not at 1.3 but three, four, five and then even scaled it, maintaining this level of return on adspend.
Patrick Wind: And um, that was the first step. So after my own little online courses after master class is the first step was this little pilot project and with them, with my three friends, and then based on this knowhow I already, and started creating content, creating content. And then I had took on my first external sales and they were happy. And then the fourth, the fourth step, I would say it was refining the entire value proposition because I started in a packaging, which was online courses, we and tools that Facebook group, um, and, and the weekly support. So basically the same model. But then I saw that when I have to do the weekly calls, um, my main both mentors of course pretty high, but for that I have to charge much more. Right. And I saw that this price is too high here, at least here in Spain and also in the rest of Europe.
Patrick Wind: It was very difficult to sell. So Fahd customer first, if the price is such a pain point, how can we reduce the price significantly? Well by reducing the work that I put into it. And that doesn't mean that I have, I delivered worse was a program. It does, it just means that my recurring, um, work. So the weekly coach calls me mean the support group and these things. It's a, I reduced that and slimmed it down to just, um, just, it's just a scalable things. So the digital things, so the course, the tools and the checklists plus the support group. And then also based on the, on the customer feedback, I found out that at least here in Spain, um, people are not so tempted to go to Facebook group to ask for questions. You rather prefer just texting someone on whatsapp and it's just a cultural thing here and Austin in Germany and in in the UK or found that people release really appreciate that.
Patrick Wind: So I created this Spanish speaking and an English, English speaking whatsup croup and it's very fast and it's very, it's very spontaneous. It, you know, they do not go to the computer or something. Just take out the phone, send me a voicemail and it's within this, within this whatsapp group and there I have my mentors. And during all of this, so after you launched usually and you're going to decide to, you know, a sidestep from there, how did you go about landing your first few clients with the online course? Yes, I'm coming back to my step process. The second step was the masterclass, the physical events and these physical event launch them. I pitched them a was also difficult mental, um, process because I started really pitching them like this at the leg, the typical sales event, like at the end and instead of now only limited time offer only tonight.
Patrick Wind: Then the once again it's a cultural thing, but these things in Spain, um, people rather riff raff rather do not like that so much. So, um, what I'd started doing is I started using these master classes as a lead generation tool. Okay. And so I was there and it just, I just, I, without dropping any price or anything, I just did my value. I delivered my value. Then in the middle I started pitching the program without any conditions. That's what we offer. If you want to learn more about advanced fakeness and words, that's what we have. If that's interesting for you, I'm here. You can leave your, uh, your email, uh, your name and what's your and your, your website and we contact you. And um, that was very good. So this switch from a, from a sales event, which is difficult because people pay already to come to the masterclass and if it would be for free, okay. But if the pay entrance then they're a little bit, they were a little bit annoyed if you sell them something on top of that. So they come there, we do it for a week. They come there, we deliver the content that they expect. Plus if you want to learn more and that's also an opportunity lead generation. And then we call them. And in the strategy sessions we close the deals.
Nick Hauser: How are you getting people into these masterclasses? Like how are you marketing that and building up the actual people who want to pay to, you know, come and learn more?
Patrick Wind: Yes. Um, I'm in the, in the fortunate position that I'm in a niche where it's very consistent and coherent Taran Facebook, Instagram ads for the entire value proposition that comes afterwards. So I teach you about Facebook, Instagram ads by running phase winning sacraments to bring it to the event. Okay. So it was my, my first touchpoint. It's usually Facebook and Instagram ads
Nick Hauser: and getting people to the event. Is that, is that where the profits made? I'm off like the ads or is it the follow up after the event? How that works and stuff. Cause I know some people have thought about, oh maybe I should run an event. And then they want to make that the ticket really low to get in so they can get a bunch of people. But then they started like working out the math and they're like, if I make this ticket, like $49 and this person, it's going to cost like, you know, more than that to get this person in here. Like how am I going to make this profitable? Can you kind of touch on that process? Yes.
Patrick Wind: So, um, according to several people, I know quite a lot about Facebook, Instagram ads, and also my results are quite okay. But these events are still not profitable for me. Okay. So having said that, it's not about how good you are with Facebook, Instagram, it's, it's, it's that, it's just very saturated market on these little events. So they charge between 29 and 99 euros for these events. And it's still not, I still don't like, I mean, I'm break even more or less, but it's just my goal, my goal is just to cover costs, costs there, but on the event sell between three and seven of the programs. And that's, that makes sense. Okay. And that's nice. So it was good from a branding perspective because if a lot of material for social media, it gives yourself a lot of confidence to speak in front of a hundred people.
Patrick Wind: That's good. You make a couple of sales there. But also then that's now I would say the fifth step after, after the fourth and probably already towards the final step in the transformation and their information. And that is now taking the physical events to a digital evergreen webinar that starts every 15 minutes with ever webinar and, and bring in traffic, bringing your Facebook. It's not to the physical event registration page to event bright, but bringing the traffic now to the evergreen webinar where I teach exactly what I already taught in the master classes, but in a very compromised way and having already the feedback implemented from the people who joined the physical masterclasses that is now, um, my s my current status quo. And I started with the Evergreen Webinar already, uh, three or four months ago. And in the beginning I really struggled because the, it's a, it's a complicated machine.
Patrick Wind: It's like the two k process. And if you fail in one part of the machine, you just invest money and the returns are not good and it's difficult to understand exactly where it fails. So you have to go inside there, you have to optimize every single element. You have to test it with several users. So I understood for example, that the eds where, okay, that's where good. So the cost per click was good and also the cost per lead was good, but then, um, sort of cost per people will leave their, their email address and register for the Evergreen Webinar, but then the end overall conversion rates sacked at the end. And I was struggling at to find out what I could really improve. So the first thing that I improved was my, my sales page afterwards. After the Webinar, I dedicated one month to that with a conversion rate optimization expert.
Patrick Wind: And that was the big gap of that was the biggest changer. That was when I made my first 2025 sales by improving this one here. That was super important. Then in the next step, I improved my entire, um, a registration process. So rerecord it. Um, there, um, hey guys, this is Patrick. When I want to welcome you, I want to invite you to an exclusive free Webinar. I rerecorded this, uh, this video, not just with a much better quality but with a much better um, offer proposition, a much better understanding for who made is exactly what they're going to take out of it being much more, um, a goal oriented. So I, I typically was very process oriented. I told them you're going to learn techniques, you're going to learn strategies you got, but it was never, I never told them what they do with that at the end.
Patrick Wind: And now it's more like uh, help you to lower your costs and increase your sales exponentially. So it's much more goal oriented and not so much process oriented oriented. And it's also not such a narrow niche anymore, but it's for digital marketers. It's for performance marketers, it's, it's much broader. So that was the next step. So improved these faint also, thank you for registration. And before we get started with the Webinar free last administrative things like all of these Webinar, all of these videos, not just better content but much better quality for very professional equipment. And then now, finally, um, exactly last week I rerecorded after four months, uh, the actual actual Evergreen Webinar, uh, the video which is, which was a 75 minutes in the beginning, now it's over two hours and it's super compromised, like super, super, super compromised. And um, I showed it to people who have already watched the first one.
Patrick Wind: And the big game changer here is not just that the content is better, the sales pitches better, the testimonial videos, testimonial videos that I use are better and more. It just has, it just, it's just a better chunk of information. But the beat game changes that the level of energy and self confidence is free times higher because you already know it subconsciously. If someone doesn't really trust 100%, then his own program. And if you start a Webinar, very shy and a little bit stubborn a little bit, you know, like not very, not very focused. And like with us with small, with a low voice and stuff. And then when it comes to two and really teaching the price really knowing instead off now chest and you see the person is basically shaking behind the mic. People feel that. And now this webinars with much more confidence with the high level of energy and I've ever seen stem as sales has also f also drastically gone up.
Nick Hauser: So the original kind of mini system you had set up was you're running ads to these events from the events you were teaching some content and then you getting them to leave some more information, which you then book a sales call together with them and then they would, you know, clothes or not over a strategy call. And then now you have the processes in place where these people are seeing an ad and they are registering for your training for your Webinar. And then they're kind of going through that same training that they were, the live events, if I heard you right. Yes. And then they're, you know, getting the option at the end, not to book a strategy call to see if it's a good fit, but to, to sign up or not. So it's like an auto sale. Right, exactly.
Patrick Wind: And did finally generate passive income, so to say, because it finally, the entire sales process works without human flesh and bones.
Nick Hauser: Yeah. And I'm curious to, why did you choose to go right to the auto sale versus going to, um, paid methods to a strategy call that didn't include the live of an in between?
Patrick Wind: Yes. Um, I tried it for one month and the quality of the leads that I got was very low, but now you can say [inaudible] because from the three funnels, it was basically the first one I never related. The second one, I never really did an entire webinar. And then instead of a sales page registering strategy call. And it's very interesting that you mentioned that because on the side I also collaborate with a big university in Germany where I gonna sell an entire university program. So I, I created the entire digital marketing university program for them. And they cannot take over the entire sales process. And yeah, we're going to apply exactly what you just mentioned. So the um, family type, so it's going to be the same, it's going to be the same, um, a webinar with you, um, but in German and then afterwards they do not come to sales page, but they can register for a, for a sales after a strategy session instead of coming to the sales page. And do you personally, do you personally think that in my case it would also be a good idea to at least test it in the, in my current situation. So instead of bringing them, instead of doing the two K Radha try with a strategy session.
Nick Hauser: Well, you've got the two K up and running right now, so,
Speaker 3: okay.
Nick Hauser: What do you, what do the numbers look like on the two K I how long have you been running it for? Actually two.
Patrick Wind: Yes. So with the new, with the new Webinar, which is basically, I would only really take a look at these numbers because before it was somehow broke because people were not really in the right. Uh, in the right funnel and now ever since I launched a new one, I invested 2000 euros in mid 7,000 in return.
Speaker 3: Okay. And
Nick Hauser: how long does it take you to get the cash back? You know, is it like how much of a followup sequence do you have built out after somebody sees the pitch and then they decide to join right then and there or not? Do you have any kind of followup on the back end?
Patrick Wind: Yes. Yes. Um, so the things that I've set up is my, my email automation and also interesting that I do not with, with the rounded with active campaigns. I also told Ryan with infusion soft, but I run it with um, with ever webinar automatically. Right. So I don't know if you've heard it already up front, but um, you can also do the same cool thing. Like people who have stayed with you until minute and haven't purchased or whatever can do the same thing with enable webinar without any extra cost. If why I opted for this option, at least in the beginning, but I still struggle with me with myself mentally. If it wouldn't be smarter to do active campaign or infusion soft. But right now I do it with ever webinar and the half a s I have a one one week, so seven days after that with um, with uh, additional content with testimonials with, um, I also have a thing, it's called the academy alumni.
Patrick Wind: So people who are not just success stories but people who are now Facebook, Instagram ads, advertisers on their own, very successful. So I basically seven days for debt and then only people who have at least seen the, have at least seen the offer them people receive also adoption. Actually that's what I do actually. I do a little offer for strategy calls. So people who are, uh, after seven days still have not purchased and the receive the invitation to a free strategy call. So I called it, in their case, I call it a free campaign audit. So me on one of my team members are going to a rare few yours, your campaigns, ad sets and ads. We're going to end the lights. We going to tell you could potentially be done better. So I do that, but nothing, nothing. There's a first call to action, but a call to action after one week. So schedule a strategy session, but calling it a free audit.
Speaker 3: Yeah,
Nick Hauser: it's really early to like,
Speaker 3: mmm.
Nick Hauser: The metrics look good though. Have you arrested to when you made back seven? You know, I would just say to keep doing that for now. Um, I mean, yeah, you could add a bunch of stuff, right? You could, you could have a like a upsell call to action. I've never really an upsale, but like a call to action to get on the phone with somebody after they purchase the price, uh, the program, you know, they want those coaching calls and then those more qualified people might, you know, click to buy. You could do that, but you know, you, like you said, Dan, you've seen like when you mess with one little thing in there, it could blow it all up. So I wouldn't touch anything. Now how'd You keep scaling that? Honestly. And then once you build that up to a point you can consider, okay am I, you know, my best just, you know, bringing out a new high ticket program or you know what is good for me, I would recommend doing one thing first and just like really getting that rinse and repeat because we did that for a while to like Sam only sold up level and then he really only sell accelerator until we finally build out a team and now we can, we can get to do and manage both.
Nick Hauser: Cause you know there's not only as different systems people have to operate them, optimize them, improve upon them and you can only be, you know, so many places at once. And then if you're going to try to do all the sales calls, then if your eyes need to be on the ads for this auto sale Webinar, Brian, in the beginning you were trying to scale it, it might take it away and you're trying to do eight sales calls a day and do all that. So it's something to think about. But I would just, I would just blow this up where you have it right now. Um, and if you can keep that return going, then I'll be way easier to do. That.
Patrick Wind: Sounds very good. And it's a very good moment to talk to you actually, because right now, uh, I'm probably already running into the wrong direction again because my next step right now in my, my milestone list is instead of going deeper with the existing, um, well of course we agreed that it would be good to just scale that one thing is going to take places just scaling this one. That's easy, that's for sure. Okay. That, that's a no brainer that for sure. Um, but now the next step, what is going to be the next step? What is the next program that I'm going to develop? Is it ether in the Indonesia that will already have creating finally, you know, echoing something accelerated, creating the up level consulting. Right. Because there is nothing right now and I had three or four people to and telling me I would love to pay you more money, but you do not offer me anything.
Patrick Wind: Okay. And probably their tape. What did those people want? They want unfortunately one on one coaching with me. And that's not ideal because there are some not picking up. They wouldn't. So for the bigger companies, I charged her with 300 euros per hour and they would, they would probably one or two of these hours per, per, per month. But then again, it's not, I could sell just one course and it's much better and it's zero and time that I lose. Um, so it's difficult. I do not really understand how I can really help them with, because it's also very individual. So what I, what I was thinking right now what's, and, and that's just an idea that popped up and you mentioned it right now, but what I'm, I rather would, I was rather thinking to start actually next week already is um, um, going uh, going align are going along with uh, with what the market actually demanded and what the only, the only thing that the market really demanded from me right now is Spanish speaking people who do not speak proper English, but one to learn about Facebook at advanced Facebook, Instagram, it's so over the past four months I had to, I just counted it a couple of days ago now to what 20 people who said, I would love to pay you the money for the entire course.
Patrick Wind: I would love to do that, but I do not speak English. And the Spanish speaking market for really advanced Facebook and services vary. It's not, not even like say 5% saturated the for the English speaking market is saturated. Then if the entire Latin American market, especially I'm living here in Spain, my personal brand here in Spain is very strong. So I was thinking of, um, off launching an entire, basically a copy of the English program, but doing it in Spanish and with some updated content because he knows what the interface of its manager has already changed a lot. Then they're gonna launch campaign budget optimization of from September on a as the only option to, to actually run ads. And I do not like, it wasn't the impossible when I, when I created [inaudible] material. So what do you think instead of, um, theoretically creating some program here, going into what the market really demanded and creating a Spanish version with updated, um, content. What do you think about that
Nick Hauser: while you were in Spain right now, yes. People speak Spanish in Spain, right? Yes. So why your, is everything in English from the start?
Patrick Wind: That's a very good question because I,
Nick Hauser: and explain to, right, you're not looking at her like targeting us. So why is it an English when you started?
Patrick Wind: Yes, because I wanted to make it more scalable and I'm originally not from Spain. I'm originally from Austria, from Vienna, and I know that also the purchasing power. And that's how we could argument from your side already. Um, but the purchasing power outside of Spain is much higher. So people in Germany, people in the UK, people in Denmark and Norway are purchasing power is significantly higher than here in Spain.
Nick Hauser: So while you're looking to scale into Spanish speakers, then if the people who have more purchasing power who might be better fits, don't speak Spanish. Yeah, I see your point. I know what you mean. Like I mean, yeah, I think, I think for any business that they can expand out into multiple languages is a really great thing. But it's the FDA with those order of consequences that happen. Like you make a program where you make a Webinar on this, but now all the follow ups have to be in that language, in all the customer support. If there is any, uh, just like email, not even coaching calls, but that has to be like that the ads have to be in Spanish and know you're doing training in Spanish and now you're flipping through these things when you're trying to scale. The one thing that's working you could potentially, by trying to grab onto that, you know, it might just break this thing and you know, want that probably.
Nick Hauser: So I wouldn't, I wouldn't focus on it right now. I mean we still have everything in English too. Um, it's something that we were looking at, but it just takes way more than people think to go multiple languages because it's like your entire business has to be in that language now to able to still get the customers the great results. But that'd be the worst thing to do is the scale into more Spanish speakers and kind of give them something like that. But then they, you know, they don't get the results and then it makes you look worse and they try to scale this other thing which was doing well. You know, these other people are coming out and they speak Spanish, but they, you know, they hate that you got them such bad results. They're learning to speak English. That just bad Matthew. So maybe that's hypothetical, right? But I would just take what you have now and scale that up first. And then I would see like see why they want one on one. Those people and like the people who still are English speakers would see if there's anything as you scale it, like why they want it, but what they're really trying to accomplish and achieve and people think they need the one on one a lot.
Speaker 3: And
Nick Hauser: the truth is they don't and they can still get it in a way. Like here's the easiest way that I like to explain it. When someone says like, Oh, is this, are these group coaching calls are like, you know, do I get to speak to Sam? And he say, you don't have to. Literally it's, it's a group coaching call where you get individualized one on one attention in a group setting. And what that means for you is not only the same way that you and I are chatting here right now. You get to speak as long as you need. Ask as many as questions as you need to keep it personal. But you can hang out on the line and listen to other people who are maybe at your level or advanced than you. And you can hear the challenges that they're facing and how they're solving it and what Sam's advice is about that. This way when you get there, they're already 10 steps ahead. And so it speeds up your learning while still giving you the attention. And usually that really, cause it's the truth, he'd really like. People don't think about it that way. It's something like that really handled the handles that objection. Well, um,
Speaker 3: okay.
Nick Hauser: Yeah. If you would tell me that you were, you were making like a hundred k a month or now that auto cell phone and then I would say, okay, maybe look at now going to a different program and thinking about these things. Um, but I would just keep how you're going and then some of the other things you're doing that's helping boost the Cassius scale that so you can scale that even quicker. And then once you have that up and running, you can start to, you know, build a little team in place to handle that a little more that you feel confident, then you can step away and focus on doing this next thing while up breaking that. And then you have the cash coming back. And I wanted to keep scaling that, but it started to test some of these other things with maybe a higher ticket program or something else. So I think that's your best bet right now. Um, I think if you veer off either way, like even if it's Spanish speaking or not, or if it's just going into trying to sell and make a whole nother high, you know, high ticket program that's for more advanced people.
Speaker 4: MMM.
Nick Hauser: Just for scaling purposes on both sides. It's gonna be very hard to scale that one while scaling this one.
Speaker 4: MMM.
Nick Hauser: Without having a big team in place. So I would just, I would do a piece by piece, you know, like the way we like to explain it, he was like, get the plate spinning over here and then let it be able to walk away and it keeps spinning and then you can move over here and focus.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Patrick Wind: Perfectly agree. Perfectly cre. So the Spanish, the Spanish program for four now is on hold. I agree. That's very good because I would have started next week already with that. And that's on hold. Great. That's already very good takeaway from my side. Now the only part that is still a little bit, um, I still a bit, I'm interested on your opinion is now should I rather focus everything on just scaling the Middle? So the existing program or should I think about, um, how can I consolidate the one on one needs that they have and bring in making it a little higher ticket one. And because they're basically, there's, there's one thing that's that already considered. Yes, I'm bringing in more advanced Facebook, Instagram, it's general program probably won't be the right fit, but without this pyramid, with within this entire niche of people that are already in here, there's one group, um, these are actually the three, four people that ask for one on one consulting.
Patrick Wind: These are faced when Instagram ads, freelancers, so people will make the money by executing campaigns for others and for these people's them, of course, I could teach them advanced stuff on this advanced strategies. But what you really need is how to acquire new customers. How do you work with these customers and how they can create their own personal brand and then scale it right? Then create a team on their own. That's basically, that would be just an idea. So if I really want to go deeper with the existing customer base, I know that I could sell at least a two, three, two, three k program on how to get customers I have for your, for your freelancer business, uh, how to work with them, how to create your own personal brand, how to act great a team like all of these things. But do you personally think that is a good idea to invest now a lot of time in creating this program as an upper level, as a, as a, as a, as an upsell or would you rather say, Nah, it's tried to make this plate spin for a longer period, a dedicated, at least half a year only on scaling this thing and then considered this.
Nick Hauser: And to be clear too, in the, in the lower ticket products right now that you're selling is included in that. It's like the strategies and the tactics more so of how to improve their campaigns. They're running.
Patrick Wind: Yes, but only focused on Facebook. Instagram is in general not going in detail how you as a, as a freelancer get people to work with you. Nothing on that.
Nick Hauser: Yeah. So, so two things. I mean it's pretty early on. And the other, the other piece, um, you know, cause if that's what the real truth need is, then originally if you, if he didn't have this auto sale webinar up and running already and it hasn't shown that has been profitable or anything and you've tested out things, which isn't the case. But if that was, you know, I would say that you should just have a high ticket program that teaches people not only the Facebook ads but teach them these other problems. They have to, because then they can come and get like kind of the full service and solve all of their problems that their own service delivery and their own ability to acquire new clients. As a freelancer, you know, where are you have right now is it's hard to make those auto sales work.
Nick Hauser: But you have it working. So I wouldn't be quick to say, we'll just shut that off immediately. If you do see a potential to scale it and the, you know, not only the, the row ads with cash row as is enough to keep reinvesting to really blow it up because eventually you, that there was, it also can create a very wide pool of an audience for people who are looking for that for you. And it's not like that you're, you're holding out on the people, um, because you're trying to upsell them. It's the progression now too. And so the already are doing it as a little bit different, but you know, if the first product is only supposed to deliver a certain amount of outcomes and that was kind of the agreement and they're happy with that, those objectives were met and they still want to make like the next step, the next transformation, then it's fine to have something else that can help them.
Nick Hauser: And because you've been able to scale this one up, you have a lot of people, not only cold Dysart selling, uh, excuse me, warm to start selling at different, your existing customer base who, you know, they, they've already spent some money with you and gotten great results. They're very happy with that. Then I would start looking at that. But I would first scale this auto sale on a before doing that, I would, I would definitely dedicate time to really scaling it up. Then started to trickle in when when people really started reaching out to you about this even more then start to, you know, make something to help them that you can sell at a high ticket level. Um, but the molding I'm really focused on here too is I wouldn't go out and try to scale this program and then not only make this program but then try to scale it exactly.
Nick Hauser: Because that's going to be incredibly difficult just as one person or even with like one other person because it's a bunch of different things I have to go on. So if anything, I would start scaling this one up and then as people keep reaching out organically from your existing client base and then I would really look at, okay I can start helping them and I can, you know it's an upsale but it's an offer them more value and I can give them maybe a little more personal attention maybe in a group coaching setting with the Q and a calls. And then from there the idea that you can eventually have this up and running where you can have, you know, a team in place to handle this. Do we can focus a little more now? Okay, how can I scale this and went up and what should I do?
Nick Hauser: Because your margins are really good now too on this so far. So if your margins where like if you were going to break even on this and it's just early stages, then I would say just go to the hall high ticket away cause that's way better. You'll get higher margins, you can scale quicker. But you have the fact that you have high margins and the auto sale, which typically if you're getting two to one on an auto sale, um, depending on the audience and everything you're targeting, like that's, that's like really good. So you have better than that now. So you can maintain that with scale then just do that because it's less effort as far as, um, you know, having to speak to people on calls and everything like that. If you can make this work, I would make it work and I take it as high as it can get people in place. I wouldn't jump too quickly to do anything. It's going to be there. Um, but as the opportunity cost, right. If you have something that's, it's making like, you know, 3.5 x Yup, exactly. And then you just dip away from it to focus on something else because it looks cool. Yeah. You can make money. You always gonna leave money on the table somewhere.
Patrick Wind: Police should focus on the first thing first.
Nick Hauser: Yeah. Have you told me, like right now I'm breaking even a Mondo on and you know, I spent spent two grand, I done this for a couple of months, spent two grand and made two grand back on this auto sale and I can't crack the code, but I have all these customers who are buying does it say, hey, I really need this thing and I really liked this but I want these extra things. I would say you don't go high ticket, it makes more sense and it can scale easier now on your end, but you can, you already have this in place and running well. So I would just focus on going high as you can with that first and then slowly take the cold people, um, and sort of mix them in. But not until selling your initial clients first. Really working out the process with them for this new offer.
Nick Hauser: Cause that's a whole nother thing, right? You've got to figure out same way you did with those live events and you figured out what do I give them in this first product? That's just the right you get, you went. I mean it's working so nobody can say it's the wrong route to go that you took so far. But once you get these new people in, you're going to figure out, okay, how do I service them? What's the best method? What's you going week one? Once you go on week two, you know, then you got to figure out. So it's best to work with your existing clients to do that first. And then once you finally build that one out, you have a system and team in place to run and continually scale this one. Then you have your proven method. Finally. Now Rinse and repeat to get clients results with this new, I take a one now you know the messaging, you've got extra case studies for the new high ticket one. Now we can look at go to scale this out and that's where you can, you know, do that. And then eventually you'd like to step away even further and have two little teams in place doing that. Um, I mean that, that's really long term but I would stick, we're here with her. He rough for now cause it's, it's doing too well to say turn it off.
Patrick Wind: Yes. Sounds, sounds very good to me. And that has a lot of potential because as you said, why did you do it in English in the first place and not in Spanish? Well, because the growth potential is much better in English. So I, so to scale it now it's just duplicating campaigns and it's, it's changing your audience to other countries and that's it. That's the way I nurture the funnel and everything else is automated.
Nick Hauser: Yeah. And I guess to you, we mentioned you landed a under the third, third was the Forbes 30 under 30 list. Uh, can you just touch on some, like for somebody who's like, what is that? Like what is it and just, you know, how you got on it?
Patrick Wind: Yes, for sure. So Forbes, Forbes magazine, basically each year nominates 40 people, um, that are under 30 years old in 10 different categories. For example, one category is a, I'm an entrepreneur ship and other categories, retail, and neither is media and marketing and in the media and marketing category in Europe. And he nominated me this year. I'm 40 chief went off on the one hand and launching the sets accelerator program. So the online learning platform and on the other hand working with very big companies, um, because the helps also my personal brand a lot. I worked for example if a six the shoe brands and helping them with their Facebook and Instagram ads and on the side and now mainly and scaling the old e learning platform. And that's what brought me on this list. And this of course brought a lot of free traffic. This gives a lot of our 40 in the, in the Webinar and that also actually the conversion rate from Facebook and Instagram.
Patrick Wind: It's traffic, um, to my, to my landing page and from here people are registering to the Webinar, uh, went up from 12% to 20%, which is a lot right now. One out of five people and that I bring like super cold traffic was not searching for anything. Um, dizzy. My Ed, they come to my page and one out of five people registered for the Evergreen Webinar. And that's because I put the Forbes logo everywhere. I put the link to Forbes so they can really see that it's not just something I made up. They can go there and then one on a five people wants to know what I have to teach.
Nick Hauser: Yeah. And was it from working with some of these like brands like a six, like a big shoe company, um, that you have the authority and the backing to maybe get like recommended for this list or they're like how did, how did it actually happen that you got put on it?
Patrick Wind: Yes, exactly. So theoretically everyone could nominate everyone. Um, but I had the luck or the fortune to, to be nominated by two big companies and that were already listed last year and one actually it's 21 patents. So they, um, they, they made over 25 million in funding, so 25 million euro in, in funding for their, for their APP. And the founders [inaudible] good friend of mine and I also help them with their high performance marketing and he nominated me and yeah, so that's, that was a good help that Forbes really, I'm also saw that there was something behind not only this person and nominating didn't meet, but also working with all the big brands. That's helped of course a lot.
Nick Hauser: Nice. And what would your number one piece of advice be for, well, what we'll do too, because this is a 2.0 interview, um, I'm sure you probably gave one in the initial interview. Let's first say what's your number one piece of advice to a member of accelerator and then what would your number one beats of vice before a member of uplevel who's just starting out and they're creating their first course and trying to make that transition. Yes. Um,
Patrick Wind: let's start with the APP level one because it's more technical and more narrowed down. And then let's go for the product one for, uh, for consulting accelerator because it's a little more spiritual and more motivating. And the technical one when it comes to, uh, the up level, building up your own online program. My number one piece of advice is details really matter. So it's not enough to just make it okay. Ish. Every single detail matters and every single word that you did you say in the evergreen webinars, everything matters. Like every single one typo could break everything. Um, one, uh, and what's super important for me was like the level of energy that you have within the Webinar makes, that's like that the self confidence that you can transmit at during the Webinar. That's also a big game changer. And all of these details, they make a huge difference.
Patrick Wind: The order that you put the elements on your, on your landing page. Like I really tell a nice story. I always tell like, um, how I generated over 10 million euros with Facebook and some permits. Then I put the brands, then it puts screenshots from ed counts, then it put testimonials and then I'll put the Forbes and that. I ab test all of these things as simultaneously all the time. Like there is no moment when I do not ab tests at each, well each not but where do not run ab tests from my funnel because it's super important. So every detail matters and the only way to find out what the t which detail works the best is by Ab testing. For example, with Google optimize, you can really easily test different copies while different elements and I always have several landing pages active and the divide the traffic to each of these different landing pages to really find out where do I get, because it's not typical to get 20% conversion rate on the landing page. I mean if you scale it up very high, it's super difficult to maintain the 20% but at least at my level and that's already pretty good. And the only way our founders, because I tested orders and copies several times, so that's, that's my advice for up level.
Nick Hauser: What am I heard that, and in technical terms, I guess you set the technicalities. How does somebody like tests that? How do they, how do they split up their traffic sources into different landing pages to see which one is working and not? Yes,
Patrick Wind: very good. So different ways when you run Facebook and Instagram at it's very easy to have one, one, one set of eds, so not exit but one set of eds, eh, where the destination URL is let's say lending page one and then you have another set of aids where did this nation, you are Ellis lending page two. And then you can eat into everything else is given. Everything else is the same. And we just compare what, what, what landing page converts better. That's one thing. The second is Google optimize. Google optimize is like the mother of all AP tests in the world because they were the first one who launched the kind of software. And with Google optimize you can easily split the traffic. Let's say 50% c version, a 50% see each version B. So you bring the traffic to the same landing page.
Patrick Wind: But then within the lending page you condense subsegment, uh, the traffic and you can also sub segmented into four different options. You can have the pattern in green or the order button in blue or the button in red and you say one third of the traffic sees and blue one [inaudible] in green, one for diseases in a, in red. And the only thing is that you are not, it's not unlimited. The possibilities today I think Google optimize, you cannot, um, you cannot change every single aspect. That's why I still run the lending page option because there you can really, it's just two different standalone pages there. Of course you can do absolutely everything on your own and you can also test what if you bring the person afterwards. So this kind of thing, a page or, but that thank you page. And it's of course difficult with Google optimize, which I would say Google optimize is for superficial easy ab tests, color of the button, uh, order of the elements and the text elements that you use.
Patrick Wind: If it's a more functional way, if it's a, if it's broader tests, I would work with different landing pages. And then the accelerator to now you have something you want to recommend for them as well. Yes. And why do I, why do I bring in now a spiritual element? Um, because I think only when you can, uh, only when you see yourself in a happy way with this kind of project for a long period. Like I'm also very, I'm not on the customer centric palace. So longterm thinking process, I am very, very, um, and very obsessed with that. And only if you can see yourself in the longterm, uh, working with this kind of project, um, with this niche, with this offer only then you're going to be successful. So my, my recommendation, my, my piece of advice for the broader audiences, um, success won't bring your happiness rather do what makes you happy and you're going to become successful in return.
Patrick Wind: Okay. So if I'm, I'm one of these guys, when I was six years old, uh, when I watched the television, I focused more on the eds and instead of the, the movies, I just, I was just a super frequent, that is a true story. Like my mom and all my friends, they all said, you're, you're weird. You're crazy. Because I, it just, it just really, I was just always super passionate about these things. It was super interesting to see how people tell their stories in 10 seconds if a clear call to action and it's a lot of money behind all of these and the move the masses and that was just complete passionate about it my entire life. I studied marketing since I'm 14 I went to business college focusing on marketing. I was always an a student in marketing. I, I graduated in marketing, I did a bachelor's studies in marketing.
Patrick Wind: I studied at University of Texas in marketing. I did my master's studies in marketing or roadmap, my master about that. I'm just a super hyper frequent digital marketing and that's exactly the niche where I want to, where I see myself not only in five years but in 10 years and actually the rest of my life, my girlfriend now my fiance is also in, is also in the marketing industry. Everything is super coherent. Everything goes align. My father is an entrepreneur, he understands marketing is, it's just very clear that this positioning, that this route is what makes me happy. And in return I become successful and never took a look at, hey, should I invest in real estate? Should I go to whatever and should they study something to choice? Should they do something with bitcoins or whatever just because they see quick success there. I did what makes me happy and I'm a freak on digital marketing and digital marketing basically is two big areas of push and pull, marketing, push marketing face when Instagram, it's pull marketing, Google ads, Seo and all of these things.
Patrick Wind: And I really focused on this one because it's great if it's analytical and I'm super passionate about and they can see most actually met my girlfriend over Facebook six years ago. So it's, it's everything. Everything is very coherent. And I'm not saying that it's so important to be hyper mega, um, everything. Everyone needs to have this consistent story. But it just, I'm just saying that it doesn't, it this complete focus on I have to be successful to be happy is wrong. It's, you have to do what makes you happy anyways and it would be very good if what makes you happy also helps to bring money. Right. Um, but do what makes you happy. Focus your time on that and then you kind of become successful in return and it's not the other way round.
Nick Hauser: Yeah, that's really good advice. And to uh, to magic as you mentioned the, the commercials, have you ever watched like the u s Superbowl? Yeah, for sure. With all the commercials, but yeah, for sure. I figured you'd probably enjoy that because everyone, everyone who not obsessed with TV ads likes the Superbowl commercials anyway. So, yeah, for sure. For sure. Well, awesome. Well it's been great speaking to you and hearing your transformation so far and it's a real one. You need your, you've progressed here from going from, you know, starting out in accelerator and Elo, having some one on one clients and then you have started your online program and you were experimenting with some things in at the beginning and doing some of these live events and now you're settled liens at the point where you kind of have an online course up and running and it's profitable and you're, you've increased, you know, not only revenue but profit in the last year, which was awesome since the 1.0 interview.
Nick Hauser: Um, but now you have a real solid foundation. Um, structurally do now scale up with whether it's the auto sale, which we were discussing earlier, IVC or eventually he looking at something a little more high ticket. So has been great. Great meal to share this with everyone. And hearing your, your um, you know, your ups and your, and your downs in terms of, you know, things you try, but you said, hey, maybe there's a better way. Um, I think that's always important too, is that people always say like, you know, you learn from your failures and I think everyone kind of gets set at this point from anything that was on the Internet from everyone. But it's also, it's sometimes doing the things that um, are not as efficient, but you did them. And so you learned from him still. It wasn't that they weren't working.
Nick Hauser: It's like when you have, you know, two ads that's you need to decide between and they're both, you know, technically in Kpi, which one do I scale? Um, and so you kind of do that too with figuring these things out. Like you're running these events and it was working, but you still were like, hey, is there a better way? And that's probably the natural, um, you know, like market or in, you do always be optimizing and doing these things. But it's still, it's really cool and I think it's cool for other people to see as well.
Patrick Wind: Thank you very much. I haven't mentioned one thing like in between the master classes and the evergreen life, a evergreen webinars, I of course tried to with life webinars bringing traffic to, so basically taking since, so that was the s uh, the sub step in between. Right. So between evergreen the air, it starts every 50 minutes. I did every week one life Webinar to really see how this content that are bringing the physical environment also works in a digital environment. And it was also okay, and I mentioned it because it was, this already was profitable, this, but the board was the limitation. The limitation was I can only do so many physical events with, right. That kid, like there was not so much demand, so it was already the first problem. Even a it, I took it so far that it did physically Ben's every week, but then of course the attendance went down so I would have had to go to other cities.
Patrick Wind: I did that. I actually went to Madrid, I did one in Vienna, I did one in Dubai because I fought. That's the limiting factor. And it was the limiting factor somehow that people in the local base, their sim, they're just x amount of people who want to come. And if you do one every week, uh, ECS is a exhausted, very fast. Okay, so we're physically geographically limited. Therefore I tried to do it in other cities, but then it was super, super exhausting for me to travel there. And you go there and you invest two, 3000 foot 40 bent and then you make 4,000 in return. It's okay, but you lose two days of your life and it's super stressful and it's not really super scalable. So did it with the life webinars, which was a little bit better, but the conversion rate was lower. Then if someone meets me in person, I shake their hand, I have a little beer with them, have a little chat with them, conversion rate is better.
Patrick Wind: But then the conversion rates, so the conversion rate of the life event when the afterlife Webinar, what's lower. But then scalability was much better. I had people from all over the world shining that was good. So I thought, okay, what can I do? Well then you have to of course, increased the number and also increase the conversion rate. And that's what I did with the Evergreen Webinar. Because the live webinars, you can still only do one or two or let's say three per week. You cannot do so many. But the life I was the evergreen Webinar, it starts every 15 minutes. Monday to Sunday. You have a little lock in the Indian ad during night, but I, I don't remember exact number. It's like 700 a webinars that you can execute, um, per week or something like that. And that's, I mean, it's easy. It's four per so 20 sites, like it's, it's almost 700 that you can do per, per week.
Patrick Wind: And you could like, you could never come compete with that as a human being it. And with this machine, that trend that runs as 700 plus, and that is now a very good argument. Um, I do the extra effort. I do do webinars in life or to a physics class, but it still doesn't, uh, doesn't mean that it's really the optimal for the user because the user sees, sees an Ed and wants to have to know how now or wants to sit at home, relax when they have time for that. And if I do a life, a life Webinar, they have to adjust their own schedule to my needs and not the other way around. So even though it's, and that's now a critical point, what you mentioned in the beginning. Yes, I was able to increase my, my, my revenues most important I was in, I was able to increase my profits.
Patrick Wind: But what's even more important, I was able to reduce use service delivery and I didn't want, that's not super important. I re I reduced my service delivery at the same time increasing the value for the customer because they can now decide, hey, it's now a 3:00 PM at three 30. I have time for one and a half hour webinar. Perfect for me. I can do it at home. I do not have to go physically to Barcelona. I do not have to go to the other side of the town. I don't have to wake up on a Saturday morning. It's better for them and at the same time reduces my service delivery. And I think that's the holy grail at some in some way. And it gives you the ability of now make these decisions where we were discussing a little bit in the middle like you could, you can step away a bit cause you have the system running and it's working.
Patrick Wind: You know, you're like where's the best really place for me to deploy more of my capital that I'm getting or what's the best strategic move for help me grow it, hit my goals and expand. Where can people find out more about you online? Yes. Um, so they could go to Patrick wind.com. That's my personal website. They can come to my consulting.com have paid with just [inaudible] accelerator.com or they can just search for me on Linkedin or in Facebook or Instagram. I'm called Patrick Wind everywhere. Awesome. Well. Again, it's been great speaking with you and I look forward again to hopefully earn a 3.0 webinar and you're, yes, you're here at seven and eight figures. I was also looking for that one, so I'm very excited to talk to you in the 3.3 0.1 or 3.0 version. Yep. All right. Take care. Take care, nick. Goodbye.