Sam Ovens: Everyone, Sam ovens here. And today I have mark Blundell on with us. And Mark's got an awesome story. He had been helping real, uh, mortgage brokers to get clients and to really run their businesses and make them more efficient and successful. And he was delivering that training and that information and advice through one on one with clients and also through speaking at like actual events. And he'd really mastered that model. And then he decided that it was time to take things online and really transfer all of his knowledge from that offline environment and turn it into online courses and deliver it that way. And at that point where he was thinking about making that change and transformation, he somehow discovered me and the court and my courses and the courses were able to help them make that transformation. And in today's interview we're going to discuss why he even wanted to move from offline to online and how that process worked and whether it's better off whether he's better off now or before and all of that. So thanks for jumping on with us.
Mark Blundell: Thanks Sam. Thanks for having me.
Sam Ovens: So, I guess first question is like, why change? Like you had things dialed in offline. Why go online?
Mark Blundell: So Sam, for a period of maybe 20 years, one could say that I had, uh, everything dialed in offline. Um, but in 2008, nine, as I said, or as you mentioned earlier on, I specialize in working with mortgage brokers in who are in the finance industry. And in 2009, uh, there was the GFC of course, senate white out all of my, or many of my clients. And, and uh, so the number of speaking gigs I had and the number of clients I had just virtually dried up overnight. So I needed to still keep viable. And what I did was I actually left what I was doing to pursue another passion. I thought it was good time to do that. And that was to pursue a passion I'd had since I was a boy. And that was of being a talkback broadcaster or in other words, a shock jock.
Mark Blundell: So I spent the next two to three years crafting my skill there and I ended up working in the largest radio station and certainly the oldest here in Sydney, Australia, which was, which was a, a bit of a triumph, but it was really there that I got the insight into the power of having an audience, you know, uh, on my programs that I used to do, I used to have about maybe 160 or 200,000 people listening to me at any one time. And I feel used to think to myself, wow, you know, I could tell these people anything and it would have a huge effect over them. You know, if I was to add value to their life, I could add value to a significant number. Um, and I could do so on account of just how many people were there. So anyway, my radio career was somewhat short lived when I thought I'd take it to the next level.
Mark Blundell: Then it craft radio shows that had sponsorship. Anyway, that didn't work. The GFC past. And I entered back into the industry three years later after I'd left it, starting from scratch. Really not having any significant clients. Yes, old context. But one of the things that I used to do in 2008 was sell programs. And uh, I used to sell these, the CD things here. Do you remember those? Sam used to put them in a machine and they played a few the, anyway, I used to produce a training program that I'd sell in my workshops. So the only thing I had really the legacy of when I came back into the industry in 2013 was this course. And then I thought to myself, well, I'm over 50 have I really got the stamina to start all over again to start traveling and working one on one with people and hopping on planes and all of that sort of stuff.
Mark Blundell: Is there some other way that I could transfer my knowledge of, you know, how a mortgage broker can truly express the value that they bring to a mortgage customers life? Is there another way in which I can do this more efficiently? And, uh, interestingly enough at the time I knew very little about social media. I mean I've got a number of kids and of course I keep track of them via social media, but in terms of doing simple things like creating a fan page or a closed group, I knew nothing. Uh, nevertheless is a lot of people do. I was scrolling through my news feed one day and this is probably three years ago and I came across one of your ads and uh, I joined after initially going that story just can't be true. Uh, the ad just kept appearing in my newsfeed and eventually, um, I sat through your Webinar and I remember thinking, here is my answer. There's very few people in my space, um, transferring their knowledge in this online way. And I still recall to this day you talking about the plumber and the hot water service and I just thought I can do that with mortgage brokers and achieve something similar even at a greater scale than what I was doing in the, in the old face to face offline days. Got It. And so you,
Sam Ovens: you were doing this offline, then you went and did that radio thing, you learn the power of the audience. You came back to this
Sam Ovens: and then
Sam Ovens: also you had learned the power of audience and social media. And then you'd found me through social media who, and I was saying that I could help you put things online. So you combined all of these elements together and thought, okay, I'm going to take this, put it online with an audience and social media and use Sam's information to help do all of that.
Mark Blundell: So to be really honest, Sam, I've watched your webinar probably four or five times and before I even joined your course and I thought, I know how to do this already, even before doing this. I mean, I've done that sort of thing all of my life, but I just don't know about the new way of creating ads and all of that sort of stuff. But that said, I gave it my first attempt and I essentially put this program, uh, online and sold it through a Shopify store. And I made a PowerPoint presentation and just was amazed at the takeup. I remember Sam, I remember pushing a shopping trolley through a hardware store on a Saturday and my phone notification going off that somebody had bought this online and it just blew my mind. At this stage, I hadn't done anything with your course. I just watched your Webinar and I thought, wow, if I can get this much out of the Webinar, imagine what I can get out of the course.
Sam Ovens: Okay.
Sam Ovens: Oh, do it was also taught you not to take a shopping cart into a store or use notifications.
Mark Blundell: They guy. That wouldn't happen today
Sam Ovens: and
Sam Ovens: so why watch it five times that it sounds like punishment. That's what a long,
Mark Blundell: in an extent it was lung that,
Sam Ovens: yeah.
Mark Blundell: What I thought was terrific is the Wayne Winch. You sequenced your thoughts and you presented them to the marketplace. You know, I'd spoken on the stage for a long period of time in my, in my previous life I'd spoken behind a microphone at a radio station and you know, selling from the stage, you've got a captive audience there. You've got people that have either paid to come and listen to you or your part of their conference or what have you. So you have a captive audience. And in a sense you also have that at a radio station where people have made the decision to choose an into you. Capturing cold traffic was something very new to me and I thought, you know, I'm a known commodity to, to what the old ways in which I do it. How is it that I'm guided to go and capture the attention of that culture traffic and draw them my story.
Mark Blundell: And I really looked at how you would structure just the sequence of thoughts that delivery of, you know, identifying the targeted niche, the uh, determining, you know, what outcomes I could achieve by watching the Webinar all the way through all the Craftman Shit craftsman ship, if you like, of your Webinar. I took copious amounts of notes just about the structure, not so much the content, but the structure. And, and I, I, you know, while I initially seeing your ads and then think at the time you were doing 10 million or 6 million or something like that. And I thought that can't be true. Once I really studied the craft of you putting the Webinar together and actually knowing intuitively why what you were doing was working and if you like the psychology behind it, just the penny dropped straight away. It was a, it was a fantastic example for me to actually understand the craft of online selling to a cold audience.
Sam Ovens: Got It. So what sold you was like, not just the message that was being said, but the detail and the thought process I must have gone through to put that in that sequence that showed you that I knew what I was talking about. Hopefully. Yes.
Mark Blundell: Well, my experience and as you can see a gray hair. So I've been around for a while and I know that nobody is an overnight success. You know, anyone who wants to be a trailblazer or a pioneer in any type of industry or any entrepreneurship, those people who really achieve success, I don't mean overnight success. I mean sustained success. My experience is they go through a hell of a lot to get there. It just doesn't come automatically. And I just looked at how you'd crafted it together and I knew why you were saying what you're saying and, and I knew why you were delivering this part here in this part here and how you closed at the end of the day. And the inclusion of things like scarcity and all those sorts of things made sense to me. I just thought, here's someone who almost talks with the same accent I've got.
Mark Blundell: Um, who's also Sam. This was impressive doing something I dreamed of doing. And that was, you know, I've got 15,000 mortgage brokers in Australia and maybe another three or 4,000 in New Zealand and up until today, up until I came back in and started my online business, that was my market. But in the u s there's 400,000 and if came Canada, there's another 20,000 in, in, in the UK there's another 50,000 and so as a speaker, one of my great ambitions has been, wouldn't it be fantastic to get the opportunity to be able to speak in those international markets? Really, you know, the notion of the Ozzie teaching the American had a cell was something that tickled my mind. And I thought just by looking at how you'd done that and, and that you were obviously closing a lot of sales in the, in the u s in intrinsically, I thought if this guy can do it, I can do to do it too. I just need to model what I'm doing on what he's doing rather than reinventing the wheel. Got It. And
Sam Ovens: what did you really need to know how to do? Like you, you knew you wanted to move things online, you had the information down, you knew the audience and everything. We even knew how to sell it. Like what real, what was the crux of it for you?
Mark Blundell: So, um, I think attracting people first of all into my ad funnel, that was really, really important to me. That's something I, I couldn't do. I remember my first few ads,
Sam, uh, we're still, I was still selling to Australians, you know, those first two. So first two or 3000 I made were all two ozzies and I didn't know how I could position myself online in a way that I could still be seen as an expert in a country outside of, you know, where I'm domiciled. So what I learned from you was that whole notion of describing somebody pain points. So describing really what their present position was and then articulating, you know, uh, whether they wanted to avoid pain or attain a desire and then being able to articulate, well, here are the three obstacles that are standing in the way of this person's otherwise success.
Mark Blundell: And that whole structure of knowing how to do that online and sticking to the things that you already knew worked was something I learned from you. I learned that, you know, the, the purchase of anything online is really a solution to an emotional problem. And ultimately, you know, the problems encountered by mortgage brokers, which is where is my next customer going to come from? It's an emotive problem. And so I learned that really of all the things that I could talk about in a training session or in a Webinar, what I really had to focus on was engaging a targeted niche, being specific about who I could help. Being able to talk about what would happen in their life once I help them. And being able to connect with them saying, you know, I felt your pain. This is what I did to overcome my problem.
Mark Blundell: I know what I'm talking about. And just learning the psychology behind that. Jay and I tell this to my own students now understanding how to, excuse me, how do I articulate that and to capture the imagination of your potential customer and to be able to paint a picture about what life would look like once they, um, you know, did whatever it was that I was suggesting that to them to do is really the secret. I learned that as being the most important things from, from you. That's what I learned, certainly at that early stage anyway. Got It.
Sam Ovens: Okay.
Sam Ovens: And on that topic, because we've talked about, you know, using that framework with that you'd said that you learned from me, I've been using it here for the structure of this interview to we started with your problem and why, why even move online. And so we, we learn more about that. And then now let's move to your niche, which is like helping mortgage brokers. So if they need help, they must have a problem. So let's talk about their problem. Like what, cause I'm sure a lot of people don't, you know, we're saying mortgage brokers, I'm sure a lot of people are like, well who are they? What do they do? Why do they need any help? Like tell us about the problem and what it's like to be a mortgage broker and what the real fear is that they have.
Mark Blundell: Sure. So at the end of the day and mortgage broker is simply a person who advocates to a lender, be it a bank or some other Linda, the um, uh, he showcases if you like or advocates the attributes associated with the lending or the borrowing and certainly the repayment capacity of a borrower. So, so, uh, a mortgage broker meets with somebody who essentially wants to buy a home and, and the mortgage broker's role is to review a whole lot of different options, review their financial structure and make a determination and point that person in the direction that's going to be in their best interests in order to procure a mortgage. One of the greatest challenges that confront mortgage brokers into their day to day life is that mortgage broking by nature, you know, is much like that of an accountant. It's a very left brain process. It's a process of analyzing people's personal balance sheets, their assets, their liabilities and all of that sort of stuff and making an evaluation of their financial position and then promoting that to the lender as being a stable financial position.
Mark Blundell: One, certainly worthy of lending money to, to buy a home. So that's the natural course and direction of the mortgage broker. And so the moment a mortgage typically at ventures into marketing themselves, they come at this problem with the left brain mentality. And so they often left with just marketing a message that can be distilled down to, you know, we offer the great, the greatest rights, you know, and the best service. Now ultimately if we look at the mortgage broker's customer intrinsically, that person by nature is just looking for some sort of shepherd or some sort of shipper or someone to lead them through the maze of complication that is bank products in money and lending. Typically the person who values the use of a mortgage broker just wants to develop trust and confidence that their trusted advisor can lead them through the maze to their desired point.
Mark Blundell: So really what the customer wants is an emotional outcome. But what the mortgage broker often prescribes is a logical outcome. And so one of the challenges that confront some mortgage broker when their marketing is to move away from sailing best rates, features and products. And start focusing on benefits. What is the value that may is the mortgage broker can deliver to that client? What's the value that's going to be added to that person's life? And so I teach brokers how to do that. How can we substantiate within a borrower's mind that you can add value to their life through the provision of your service? And it goes way beyond. I'll just get you the best rate, you know and give you the best service.
Sam Ovens: Got It. So then it's go down another level. And this tree too,
Sam Ovens: the cause we started with your problem, then we looked at the mortgage brokers problem.
Sam Ovens: Now
Sam Ovens: what about the put the home buyer's problem because they're but their mortgage brokers problem is thoroughly understanding the home buyers problem. And your problem is thoroughly understanding both of these. So like how, what is it, what is it like for them? Because there's these days there's lots of, there's Google so you can Google it. How to get a mortgage. There's tons of aggregator sites that like search all the banks and try to get you your lowest thing, your lowest rate. And, and all of this posse, everyone's with a bank and I'm sure their banks telling them, hey, you want to buy a house, buy a house. I know my bank always is that. And why does someone need in 2019 and mortgage broker when there's the internet, Google and all of that?
Mark Blundell: So to get into the granular detail, to answer that question, we've got to look at the mortgage customer. There are four types of mortgage customers in the marketplace. There's the bank focused mortgage customer who since they were kids, always used to do their financial transactions with the one bank. There's the do it Yourselfer who will be drawn to that whole aggregation comparison type online website. There's the mortgage broker that excellent, sorry, the mortgage customer that actually understands the value of engaging an expert to get the best outcomes for them. And fourthly, you have that person who has actually no idea what their next step forward is. All they know is they need to borrow some money to buy her a home line. So when I'm talking to mortgage brokers, I first helped them to understand that not everyone who runs around with a big red sticker on the foreign is a perfect client for them.
Mark Blundell: That they should look for attributes that exist within their marketplace, off people. They can actually help because in real terms, that person who's arrested on do it yourself up or that person who's a big fan of that particular lender, the mortgage broker has no hope changing, uh, the, those people's habits. But what the mortgage broker does have hope with is speaking to that person who doesn't know what the next step is or that person who values the, the concept of employing a professional to help. So the mortgage broker first has to understand that there is only a segment in their marketplace they can actually help. So the challenge that we look at for the mortgage customer boils down to those two people. One is I don't know what next step I need to take is, well, if a mortgage broker can articulate the path forward and let that mortgage customer know what the steps are and how long it's going to take and what it's going to cost them, you know, to pay their mortgage off and and all of that sort of stuff.
Mark Blundell: So in other words, to articulate the steps forward, that really helps that person who has no idea in terms of their person who already understands and has the mindset of if I engage a trusted advisor, I'm going to be better off what the, what that person is looking for is, is how can I trust and how can I have confidence that this person I'm about to engage or contemplating engaging and knows what he's talking about? How do I know that I'm not going to end up worse off than I already am? How do I know that my privacy is not going to be breached? How do I know that I'm not going to end up in a home line that's more expensive or at a higher interest rate than I could otherwise have got for myself. So we need to, or the mortgage broker needs to actually understand what are the unspoken questions in their mind, in the minds of their audience and how do we create a pitch that captures their attention, addresses their concerns, speaks to their desires and presides a solution.
Mark Blundell: So that's what the mortgage customer wants. And that's how the mortgage broker needs to approach the marketing of their services in that sense. Now that said, the majority of mortgage brokers in the world are still pitching great rate and great service, which it leads them to dealing with anyone who puts their hand up and say, says, I need a mortgage. You know, there, there are feasible targets. So what happens with the mortgage broker is they end up spending too much time dealing with the wrong type of customer and they don't appreciate that. The only thing, even though they get paid on commission, the only thing they've got to sell is their time. And it's the value of their time that will determine their profitability.
Sam Ovens: Were there any person that is going to win the lowest rate?
Sam Ovens: Okay.
Sam Ovens: Game is the person with the absolute lowest rate
Mark Blundell: and you can only be at that point for a short period of time until someone else comes along. Yeah,
Sam Ovens: so it's a good strategy. If yours is the lowest and should always bid lowest and is considerably lower, but what I'm sure what you've been doing this for a long time, you must have seen a lot of different mortgage brokers like, Oh, I'm sure you've seen Mitt in seeing some exceptional ones.
Sam Ovens: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: What differentiates them from the average mortgage broker? Why are they so much better than the others?
Mark Blundell: Number one, they empathetic. That would have to be by far the most important attribute. They don't put their position first. They put the position of the customer first, and that's what I mean by empathetic. In other words, they have a skillset of being able to put themselves in the shoes of the customer that they're speaking to. They have an affinity of being able to understand what it feels like to be that mortgage customer, to understand what thoughts that are going through that mortgage customers mind, to intrinsically understand the intrepid nature of that typical person, about to make one of the biggest financial decisions of their life. So the first and foremost would be that their ability to be able to see the world through the eyes of the customer. Now, unfortunately that's the minority in my space. That is the minority. The majority approaches the problem from a teacher student point of view, Hey, you're in this position, this is your solution. And you know, when you're making a decision that's two hundred thousand four hundred thousand dollars and 25 years or 30 years long, you know, that's not necessarily what brings you comfort as a customer. So yes, it's that number one, it's that ability to be able to walk in the customer shoes and see the world through their eyes. I think that really makes the standouts in the mortgage industry.
Sam Ovens: And what about like,
Sam Ovens: yeah,
Sam Ovens: I'm just thinking about some of the mortgage brokers I know that I thought were pretty cunning what they'd done and
Sam Ovens: they had established like a bit of a network with other banks and in ages, agents and brokers and stuff. Because for example, I've got a, like a private banker at Santander that I work with and when I was looking at buying a house once, he was like, oh, we don't do residential lending with this bank. But he was like, but I've got a guy who's great, you look after you immediately handed me to him. The Sky I speak to, he was really successful. He had like, and obviously he had just like found all the bankers that work with private clients that worked at banks that has private clients are going to have good, good amount of money. But those private banks didn't do residential mortgages. Right. So like then he, he met, that person's referring it to him. Then he obviously must give some kind of kickback there.
Sam Ovens: Right. And so the clients would just get fed like that. And another one was a mortgage broker. Who did it for, uh, for like foreigners and he worked with brokers that worked with, and also with the bankers. So when someone wouldn't have enough documentation to get past it, say a chase bank because you need, um, you need to have a social security number, multiple years of IRS financial was a foreign foreign or isn't going to have that. And so they often apply through these banks and then they can't finish the process. These brokers in that situation, they would pass it off to a, a banker that could handle foreigners and could get a foreign is approved. So like they'd kind of established a network of referrals. Is that common with really good brokers?
Mark Blundell: Well, to an exchange it is, but at the high level, normally I can tell you the, the mortgage brokers who earn the most amount of money in the world focus on one niche on one end, on one outcome. That's a, sure they're going to have acquaintances or what have you. But they're really driven on who it is they can help. For instance, I've got, I've got one particular client, I'm thinking about who focuses on just the one outcome and his, his messages. How can I show the person who has a mortgage that might otherwise go for 25 years or 30 years? How can I show them how to pay their mortgage off in 10 years without substantially upsetting the household budget? So in focusing on this niche, hey becomes very, very strong in that space. He begins to understand all the nuances that are associated with this niche client and can continue developing his offer such that it becomes hugely successful.
Mark Blundell: Whereas that mortgage broker who is the generalist, in other words, I can help you with a commercial loan. I can help you with a residential loan, I can help you with whatever. Never seems to get any further than just earning an average, an average income. And so once again, if we walked back to even your ad, you know, I think that was the 26 year old punk ad that I'm referring back to, the one where you talked about the, the generalist and the specialist. And you know, I can tell you generally that genuinely that that really resonated with me because this is a message that I'd been delivering for 20 years to mortgage brokers about the importance of being a specialist. And I often painted a story in my presentation, Sam, where I would describe the, the, the as scenario of someone feeling like they had chest pains.
Mark Blundell: And so they go and see the local doctor who they'd seen for 10 or 15 years and, and they say to their local doctor, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling like a bunch of chest pains. Maybe I'm having a heart attack or something. And I talk about, well, what would you response be if your doctor said, well, hop up on the couch and we'll have a crack at sorting it out for you. You know, nobody wants that. But by contrast, everybody's happy with getting given a business card that says, Dr. Frank Smith, cardiac surgeon, and the moment you go and see him, your biggest question is, well, how soon can you get me sorted out even though you don't know him? And so that whole concept of specialization is so important. If a mortgage broker wants to take their business to exceptional levels to become skilled at empathizing, seeing the world through the eyes of that targeted customer and specializing in that space and not being a generalist. And so they're the people that earn the most amount of money.
Sam Ovens: Got It. Anyhow, I guess that is kind of the, especially the foreign, the foreign national mortgage broker that is probably their niche, like foreigners because they can't, now you've got a real differentiating strategy because this person can't get a mortgage with the other banks. That's right.
Mark Blundell: And it's funny pointing question, I'm, I'm just working with a guy in Miami who does exactly that, who provides mortgages to foreign nationals, are people who want to buy a New York or in London and uh, or in Miami for that matter. And that's right. That's his niche.
Sam Ovens: Another one could be like mortgage brokers for people who already have a mortgage. Correct. Hmm. Yeah, that's the, that's key. And I guess that's a universal principle anywhere. Even if we look in nature with organisms, like organisms have niches and you know, if you take something that lives in like a penguin, you put it in the desert, right? It's not going to be very good. So part of like strength and advantage and success is adapting to a particular environment and an environment is a niche basically. So and then thoroughly adapting and understanding and knowing the nuances of that niche
Mark Blundell: and surviving within it for an extended period of time is, is only found by doing all of that.
Sam Ovens: Hmm. Okay. So we understand your problem, the mortgage brokers problem and the home buyer's problem.
Sam Ovens: And then
Sam Ovens: so let's come back to moving online. And so your watch my Webinar five times and copy, I even even watched it five times, I made it. Um, and so then you, you, you made one of your own and it worked and then you see your thought. All right, I'm definitely buying the scores. You buy the course. What happens next?
Mark Blundell: So all of a sudden I had structure. I had instead of guessing about should I, because, um, as anyone knows who's possibly watching this, running a successful ad funnel and, you know, marketing your business online has everything to do with numbers and you know, what's the, what's the click rate of your ad, what's the conversion rate of your landing page? So on and so forth. And not actually having any tangible, um, references. I found that I was just getting totally frustrated with what I was doing because while I had, you know, some early success, I'd made a couple of sales, I really couldn't move beyond that. I know almost hit like a glass ceiling on the basis of my lack of knowledge with respect to going online. And so part of the idea was, I think, you know, to be honest, Sam, I probably had made $200,000 out of your little webinar without joining your course, which was great.
Mark Blundell: But I wanted to scale my business beyond a million. I, I had never earned $1 million in a 12 month period before. I think, you know, maybe the best, uh, my company had ever turned over was maybe 400,000 or 500,000 in the past. Uh, but that was pre GFC, global financial crisis days and we're in a new world here and, and so there was a whole lot of learning that I really had to establish in my own mind in order to take my business to where I knew it could get get to. Like I get it, I get it. There is no thought in my mind, will this work or work this work that just doesn't exist and hasn't existed for a long time. It was just how do I take my business from its early stages of making, you know, maybe a hundred or $200,000 in sales.
Mark Blundell: How can I truly scale this and grow it so that I can, you know, at compete with some of the other digital PR entrepreneurs, it was blowing my mind. Seeing people half my age and even the age of my children earning 10 and 12 and $8 million. And I found myself, you know, in an old man's body with a young person's mind, really wanting to emulate what they were they were achieving. And so, you know, through bitter experience of many years passed, I knew that the smartest way of ever getting anywhere is to walk the path that somebody who is already where you want, where you want to be, has walked and just listen, take onboard what they've got to say. Don't analyze it, don't break it down. They've walked the walk, they know what it looks like the other side of the mountain. So take their advice. You're crazy to think about reinventing the wheel. And so for me it was an easy decision, you know, based on if I've attended someone's Webinar and I had a couple, a hundred thousand dollar resell, it was a real simple decision for me to just jump in and get involved with consulting.com
Sam Ovens: got it. And so you joined, you purchased it, you got in, and then what happened?
Mark Blundell: So then I looked at my whole business, so I jumped straight in and uh, and joins your quantum group. So that gave me,
Sam Ovens: you went straight into quantum do.
Mark Blundell: Yeah. Okay. So that
Sam Ovens: last, watch the Webinar, five times coffee, the Webinar, and then for your own business, make 200 grand from it and then don't join accelerator. Don't join up. Be, we'll just go straight to quantum. Well it's pretty, it's the base path I've seen no one, no one makes 200 grand before they, before
Mark Blundell: they join the program. So like, I mean, that makes sense. So I looked at it and I thought like, Sam, your under 30, I'm 55, you got more time ahead of you based on statistics. And I have, so if I want to be where you are or where some of the other members are in quantum, I've got to spend time analyzing and learning what they're doing, you know, um, for me figuring this thing out and all of that was just, you know, I'd long casts, I suppose those natural obstacles that anyone has when they're, you know, taking a business online, whether it's an established one or one that they've just started. Invariably there are, is that monkey on the shoulder saying, you know, this isn't going to work. This can't work. Stop Fooling Yourself. Well, I didn't have that any more. Once I've made those sales, for me it was all in.
Mark Blundell: And for me, I looked at it, I thought every day I don't do this is costing me a fortune. Every is just missing. I'm missing an opportunity. And I found it difficult to sleep in real terms when, you know, I got to this glass ceiling and I thought, I can't convert in the UK. I can't convert in the US. What do I need to do? What am I doing wrong? You know? And I needed to learn from people who were doing what I wanted to do. So, so, you know, I came at it from a position of I knew my story, I know my stuff, you know, I know my subject matter. I don't know the craft and you know, I couldn't take on, um, enough information when I first joined your quantum group. And I remember, you know, within the space of one or two weeks, I was on a plane sitting in your office in New York, you know, for, for one of your weekends.
Mark Blundell: Now for anyone watching this, you're just wasting time trying to figure something out yourself. It just doesn't make sense when somebody else has already figured it out for you. And, and you know, in real terms, why would somebody who, who runs a business that is, that is inextricably linked to the outcome of being people succeed, people success. Why would anyone give you the wrong guidance? You know? And I think what happens with people is they might go, yeah, that's okay for him, but you know, he doesn't know about my niche, you know, but he doesn't have to know about your niche, you know, about your niche. You just got to learn the process. So, so, you know, in thinking all of that through and thinking I need to really scale my business, I need to get it to hit $1 million like Sam and dollars and selling in the u s where two of my, you know, on a tie and obtainable goals up until that stage. And you know, you might ask me why were they important. I don't know why they were important, but they were bloody important to me and that's what I wanted to achieve and I was going to find a way to do it. So that's why I jumped straight through and jumped into quantum.
Sam Ovens: Yeah, I think I can understand it because I think for a lot of New Zealanders and Australians, you know, you know, you can, the idea is I will start locally and then we'll scale into Australia. That's what New Zealand is thinking. Australians probably start locally and scale into New Zealand. That's right. But barely any of them go and actually take over the United States. Even if we look at zero, which is extremely successful. Right? It's still hasn't, people seem to go like New Zealand, Australia, then America. And I always thought, screw it, why not just go New Zealand, America? You know what I mean?
Mark Blundell: Absolutely. Look, it's, it's a great theory to have and that makes sense.
Sam Ovens: And so I can, I can get that. And what did you, what did you learn? So you'd fly over to New York, sitting in a seat in a, in a room. Like what, what did you learn?
Mark Blundell: So Sam, that was my last year and uh,
Mark Blundell: I had another, another obstacle in my way. So while I was really passionate and I wanted to try and get to where I wanted to go at the same time, my wife was, was recovering from cancer at the same time. So it really meant I couldn't travel as such anymore. Like I did the old days and I really had to learn systems and order in order to be, as you know, um, what's the word? Um, as, as systemized and, and, and as organized as possible so that I could create some time, just spend time, whatever time was needed, we with her. So one of the things that I learned and, and you know, can I be honest with that was may last year, I'm just finally implementing the last of some of the notes that I took a year later. But focus was so important and this is it.
Mark Blundell: This is important focus, you know, not trying to do a million things, not trying to do Dan for years and you know, uh, I'll hit up this niche and run multiple funnels and all of that sort of stuff. Because to be honest, prior to coming and speaking with you and sitting there on that weekend, that was my pathway forward, you know, uh, do multiple, you know, uh, ad funnels for people and all that. But to be honest, that made me so sick of the business. I hated the concept of having to attend to other people's dramas. I hated the concept of, okay, I create a really good ad funnel for you. I generate leads and you don't ring the leads or you don't close the leads or you can't close the leads and you want to blame the ad funnel for that as the, as the problem.
Mark Blundell: So all of their frustrated me. So learning to focus one funnel, one outlook, one nace climb, building my own mastermind group. And uh, doing that was, was really what I took away and I was selling a course, this is interesting. At the time I had built out and my own email list build a course, which was, you know how a mortgage broker can grow a large email list of boggy citric customers. And then I brought out version 2.0 of that, which talked about how can we get them off the email list into cal and turn them into calendar appointments. But after coming back from, from the weekend in New York, I looked at my business completely and recognize that the business I had in the structure I had was totally wrong. It, I was never going to get to where I wanted to get to. So my goal was eight figures and I was never going to get there with the business model I had, I had staff, we were doing, you know, done for years.
Mark Blundell: We had phones ring all the time. It was nuts. And, and one of the most difficult decisions I had to make was to really, even though we were probably doing 600,000, to actually put a line through the whole thing and start again with a singular focus of this is my path forward. That's what Sam's done. That's what the other guys are doing, this is what I'm going to do. And so I came back and analyze really what is it that my mortgage brokers need? What's the true value? So that's the second thing I learned that that big money was earned when you truly provide value to your customer. And so I thought about it and I thought, well, if my mortgage brokers, mortgage brokers or mortgage loan officers are my customer, what is the greatest value that me with all of my experience can deliver to them?
Mark Blundell: And it wasn't prospecting, it was selling. And to me it made sense that after coming there, the, the realization was, what am I teaching these people how to prospect for when really if they knew how to sell, if they knew how to sell their value, well prospecting would come easy. And so I started all over again and embarked on creating a brand new course. We've got rid of all the done for years that we say goodbye to the staff. And we started from scratch building out a brand new course that taught mortgage brokers how to sell their value by Webinar or by VSL. So we wrote out a brand new core. So what it did was, number one, it really drove home to me that my ambition was realistic and it was realistic because I could see other people, you know, who were indeed good at their craft, but certainly no better or no worse and could do things no better or no worse than I felt I was physically and mentally capable of by their age.
Mark Blundell: But second to that, I knew that as I could foresee my obstacles, I had an opportunity of going, so what happens when you get to here? And instead of having to go through that trial and error process of trying to work out, well, split testing, try this, try this, try this. I could come into a group and ask a question and get an answer that I didn't need to second guess because people who are giving me the answer had walked the walk before. So I think focus and, and a pathway forward and a better way of thinking, uh, was really what I took away from, from the, uh, joining your con quantum group
Sam Ovens: and also eliminating done for you did.
Mark Blundell: Hmm. That's tough. We still, you know, you said to me, which I think was pretty important, unless you need to get some early runs up around the new product, steer away from alumni. And I found that really hard because Sam, we were probably generating maybe, uh, you know, we would sell a done, just sell a done for you solution for 10 or $15,000. So we were generating a reasonable amount of income from Dan for years, and it meant letting go of a considerable amount of income. But I tell you, it made me hate my job. It has made me really be anxious and frustrated and I wasn't playing at my strengths, you know, I wasn't playing to any of them. My strengths are teaching people how to do something, not doing it for them. And uh, and so, you know, coming, they're just brought that realization to me and, and, and really shook me up to come back and put a line through the whole thing and go, blank canvas, let's build this properly.
Sam Ovens: Okay.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. I can't even find the time. A lot of the time to done for you my own things. Yeah. Know it's hard enough to do that, you know, to fully done for you your own things. Then trying to do that and other peoples done few it, it doesn't work.
Mark Blundell: You become mentally exhausted and you give away your best to somebody else is what is, what are, you know, I, I'll give you an example. You know, I remember a time where we were doing done for years and one of the things that you said to me was, mark, you need a sales page now. I didn't even have a sales page when someone bought out of my Webinar, they went straight to an order form. And I used to think, I am so spent in the process of done for you is that I don't have the headspace left anymore to apply my own thoughts to building my own sales page. And so we went without a sales page for a long time. In fact, we only got it right this week.
Sam Ovens: Yeah, it is taxing. I remember doing done for you and is, it's like the done for you hang over because it's great when you get the client, you're like driving back from the meeting or whatever and you're smiling because you just made some money. But then tomorrow comes and you've got to deliver it and then you're like, shit,
Mark Blundell: what did I say? Hell yeah. And, and, and, you know, um, I really feel for my clients, you know, I know that, that so much she's hanging on that work and you know, ultimately anyone who buys a done for you is going to think return on investment. But if they can't sell when they talk to the client or if, if that, if that, uh, that person, uh, in my case, if that person doesn't have the product suite to sell that person or if they, you know, cause there's some mortgage brokers that will tell a client, no, that can be done, that can't be done and that client only needs to go and see another mortgage broker and get the loan approved. So, so what bothered me was, was my craftsmanship, craftsmanship and work really hinged on the ability of this person to sell. And sometimes people want the end result but don't have the skillset to execute.
Mark Blundell: And, you know, there were a couple of instances where we created, done for years where, where I should have said no in the first place because the person at the other end of the done for you, you know, couldn't sell. You know, I don't know what to who. Um, and, and you know, that was frustrating. I remember Sam, we did a did a campaign and um, I'm watching the messages go between you know, prospective clients and mortgage broker and you know, this guy was pitching to people to consolidate their credit cards into their mortgage to get one loan in a nutshell and someone had right to the, to the operator and say, you know, can you help me? These are my circumstances. And without this guy making a phone call asking, you know, any pertinent questions or what have you, he would just write back and say, Oh, you probably need to go and see a budgeting service. And you know, I used to think to myself, now at the end of the day, there's my integrity on the line for just a really cheap win. And that's not even what I want to do anyway. So that's why we pulled away from, from done for years.
Sam Ovens: Got It. And
Sam Ovens: so you joined quantum, your Tina disobedient, you learned that you need a focus so you actually shut down your whole done for you business. Got Rid of the people and everything,
Sam Ovens: and then
Sam Ovens: you focused on one thing, like one niche, the mortgage brokers solving one problem, helping them get clients and run their business. And then you have one product to deliver that your online course and then one funnel, which was your automated Webinar. How's that going?
Mark Blundell: So in December of last year we said about, I sit about writing a brand new presentation that was going to teach mortgage brokers how they could best represent the value that they can deliver to their targeted market via an automated webinar or a video sales letter. What the psychology was behind a mortgage customer saying yes to their offer. And so, you know, as you launched through building a brand new Webinar, let alone the course, I took your advice and the advice was do the Webinar, presale the course before you start the course, which made a lot of sense to me because I thought this is going to be my best work ever, but I don't want to put in all this time only to be devastated that I can't make a sale. So I wrote a sales presentation, a Webinar for this new product, and sketched out how the course was going to look and my presentation, my Webinar was two hours and seven minutes long and I thought, wow, that's twice as long as my last one, which I considered a little bit too long.
Mark Blundell: Nevertheless, I've put in a lot of work and Emma, my wife had helped me build out the slides and we decided to market at first to my email list. Now I have an email list of 10 15,000 people. And so I marketed to them to run a live webinar in early December. I think we had something around 450 registrations, maybe a bit less. We are 190 people turned up and we're selling a nine 97 product and at the end of delivering this two hours and seven minutes, um, we generated $50,000 which in sales for costs that hadn't been built. Now
Mark Blundell: that just to me, it, it, it, it almost felt so surreal. It almost felt like I must be doing something wrong. This must be illegal. And things like that. You know, but all I had done was implemented exactly what I had learned, exactly what I had learned from the group into my own business, into my own niche. And I struggled with the thoughts of, you know, I'd personally do it this way, but no, Sam and the team said do it this way. We're doing it this way. And to get that outcome to have, you know, make 50 sales at the end of the Webinar where we're closing 20 I think we're close, 25% or 26% of the that attended maybe more. It was a, it was just phenomenal and, and it was fantastic at the end of that, two hours and seven minutes to sit back and think and, and all, you know, give myself a bit of a pat on the back going, hey, that's great. You sat down, you imagined the target, you were methodical about the process, you sketched it out, you executed, you stuck to your game plan. You didn't get laid. Any bright shiny objects deviate you, here's your result. And, and I just, that was just to me like a unique set of circumstances is coming from a 25 year background of just ranting on my wits with no particular structure as such. And for me that was the biggest takeaway.
Sam Ovens: Okay,
Sam Ovens: got it. And so you did that, that was like a one off one, right? And then you had to build the product, like how's it running now that you're doing it more consistently on a day to day basis?
Mark Blundell: So initially we sketched out the product but we've added so much value into the product. Next week I think we started on the 15th of January 15 next week is the last delivery of the live presentations. So I got a whole group of foundation members to turn up every week to a one to two hour training session as I delivered pre prepared videos and modules and PowerPoint slides and solely built out the course, always being one week ahead of the foundation group. So in that period of time we've also tried automated webinars. We don't quite get the conversion rate that we get from the live webinars. So we're just still trialing different ads, were still trialing different approaches, you know, um, I noted with interest at Daniel Leslie's a conversation with you last week about doing live presentations and, and so I, I'm not too sure whether I'm ultimately going to go down the presenting once a week live or presenting automated.
Mark Blundell: One thing is for sure though, is that I have a mastermind group and everyone who's either attended my live presentations or my automated ones get sent marketing emails to come and have a breakthrough strategy session with me. And because of that process, you know, the turnip writes really good in the strategy sessions. We're starting to get some fantastic people into our mastermind group. But let me tell you, we make three sales in the u s to everyone in Australia now and, and last year as we were marketing, it blew my mind. I've got an email from somebody in Canada just out of the blue from Canada who said, I've been following your stuff on social media for a while. I'm just wondering if you'd like to speak at our conference. And I thought, wow, that's fantastic. I'd love to do that. So, you know, I gave them that legitimate response of, let me check my diary to see if I'm free, which, you know, I'd have gone in a heartbeat and it turns out this conference they're having, they're having on a cruise liner, which is leaving from Los Angeles to Vancouver for three days.
Mark Blundell: And they wanted me to speak to the group on the cruise for an hour about attracting mortgage customers online. And really that was the underpinning of, of being able to start feeling what it was like fulfilling a dream, turning an idea into a reality. So now my biggest, or my, most of my clients, if you like the coming from the u s and Canada, um, I, I look forward to going over there later on in the year and doing some speaking gigs there. But it's extraordinary how when you sit down and use, map out a plan and you work with somebody who knows what they're doing, who's walked the walk before, you know, how success comes your way. It hasn't been simple. We've had lots of brick walls. There's been lots of working Saturday, Sundays, 12 hour days, you know, I could be retired at my age.
Mark Blundell: However, I have to say I have the enthusiasm today at 55 greater than any enthusiasm I've had all my life about my work. I love what I do. I love watching people are tying the results. Last year we had our first mortgage broker who earned $1 million out of being a mortgage broker just by following our programs. You know, that was just fantastic. And, and today we are now attracting people who are, it's going to be common for them to earn $1 million in commission selling mortgages by running automated webinars. And you know, when I talked to them and say, you might be generating 150,000 a year, this is possible. I can say it with so authority because I've walked the walk myself and if you like, I'm just emulating what you did to me and I'm doing to them.
Sam Ovens: Got It. So
Sam Ovens: you to turned out to be a good idea, like to take things online.
Mark Blundell: So far it's been a great idea. Um, you know, we've achieved, I've achieved, I, you know, I've achieved everything that this little small mind of mine had the capacity of imagining for myself. Do you know,
Sam Ovens: and a lot more now though,
Mark Blundell: oh, it's just wild now. Now every day is built with a bit of frustration of I can't wait to get there, but in, in real terms, I can sit in my quietest moment and imagine myself there and get the same goosebumps in the same feel as though I've already accomplished it. It's so, it's so real, so realistic and it all comes from, you know, it, it all comes from a, a notion of following the footsteps of somebody who's walked the walk ahead of you and you know, the whole idea of adding value, you don't make any money unless you add value and, and that's so true.
Sam Ovens: Got It. Cool. And so biggest lessons was like don't sell, done for you. Focus to one thing. Well add value and that's basically it. Those with, with those, what you would say were your key takeaways from, from working with me?
Mark Blundell: Yeah. And, and just be focused. Stay focused on the, like the biggest of all of those yeses, nos is focus. Stick to what you decided to do and just stay there. You know, stub deviating around you become, when you, when you focus on the one funnel in this stage, the one product, you become damn good at it. And by focusing when you know that everybody else will be attracted by the bright shiny objects that will appear in their journey. If you focus on that one thing, you will ultimately become the world's best at it. And you know, it's not about, it's not a matter of when, or sorry if it's a matter of, of when you will become the world's best at it if you stay focused. And that's been our mantra here. There's, there's a number of other digital entrepreneurs in this space, but I firmly believe in, and I say this without any bias, that our stuff is by far the world's best at, you know, our niche. And we've accomplished that just by staying within those simple parameters of, you know, one product, one funnel and one objective and one targeted climb.
Sam Ovens: Got It. And how can people learn more about you? Like if they want to, if they know a mortgage broker that, or their mortgage broker, they want some help, how can they learn more about you and your course?
Mark Blundell: I have a company called mortgage sales mastery.com and uh, people can reach out to me or my team or jump on one of my webinars by simply going to www.mortgagesalesmastery.com and there they can find, uh, my presence. They can find my material. I have a free community group, which is FB dash mortgage sales mastery at, so they're the best ways of people finding out more about what we do.
Sam Ovens: Awesome. Well, thanks for jumping on and sharing your story. I'm sure it's going to inspire a lot of people and hopefully make them stay focused and um, I'm looking forward to seeing how you take things to the next level from him.
Mark Blundell: Sounds good. Thanks. Thanks Sam for giving me the time.
Sam Ovens: Awesome. Okay. Bye.