Sam Ovens: Hey everyone, Sam Ovens here and today I have James Kemp on with me and James is one of my earliest clients. He was at. I actually met with him in a coffee shop in New Zealand before I was even doing consulting, so like we met up before I was even doing any of this and we would just to chat and that was about five or six years ago.
I just checked my email to see that original email from James and about five, six years ago, I don't even know how James came across me, but we'll get into that and we meet up to talk about what I was doing and everything and at that time James had a full time job and then he decided to quit, start his own business and he started helping ecommerce businesses get clients online and that later. Okay. Evolved into coaching programs and and online training and over that journey he's been able to scale his business up to the point where it's at around $100,000 per month.
And so on today's interview we're going to discuss how that journey happened, how he went from working in a nine to five job to somehow randomly meeting me in a coffee shop to making 100 grand a month and moving to Bali.
A lot can happen. There is a lot of times. So first of all, how did that happen? Like how did we meet in that coffee shop?
James Kemp: You know, I, I don't actually know. Um, I, I don't, I can't remember who reached out to who you are. You were entrusted in stuff. We were doing business. I was marketing director at the time and I was interested in you doing in the software an APP that you had at the time. So I didn't remember how I it.
Sam Ovens: Thank you. I'm pretty. Oh, I'm pretty sure you must've seen something to do with snap and spit like I think ge or, or something like that. And we meet up to talk about just entrepreneurship in general. And then we, I started talking a little bit about consulting.
James Kemp: Yeah, you adjust, you adjust taking some clients. Then you're working with people, sending them links to dropbox and I remember coming home to my wife at that time and saying I met this young guy doing some pretty interesting stuff, funding to fund a software business through consulting and it sounds kind of interesting. But yeah, he's got, he's got big ambitions and a lot's happened since then and then two years later I needed help and I reached out to you again.
Sam Ovens: So what happened in between those two years? When did you, because at the time we met you at a job and
James Kemp: then at what point did you quit the job? About a year after we met and I, I landed on my feet, you know, I was doing two or three grand consulting gigs, you know, daily, right? It's kind of consulting gigs to some big company. He's a very good reputation around ecommerce and online growth and uh, you know, New Zealand's a relatively small market so it's really easy for me to pick up the consulting gigs, you know, that I was running into that same problem, runs into attempt to trading time for money because I could only take on so many clients and I'd start to work with some private and small ecommerce businesses on the side and it was very labor intensive and my income was very much, I was making decent money but I was on the hamster wheel and a couple of things happen actually had as any new business I know is naive about I had a big tax and I was just burning myself out in terms of just working eight hours a day with a client and then, you know, getting on calls and stuff in the evenings and sometimes when I was with other clients and those kind of thing.
So it's just running, running out of hard to really know how to grow.
Sam Ovens: Got It. And then how did, and then what happened from there?
James Kemp: When I, um, when I, when I first joined the one at the time was that, um, I think that the, the thing that you drummed into me was around productization and leveraging ourselves and I had a pretty significant ego back then, probably still do, but I thought clients wanted a lot of me. I thought they wanted a lot of contact with me. I thought they wanted lots of, lots of, one on one and lots of access to ask me questions. And I think one of the big things that you showed me early on was that people just wanted the information and then a little bit of insight and access to help unpack that for themselves and apply it. So giving them video trainings, given the documentation and giving them community where they could talk to other people are in the same situation. You know, immediately took me out of that center that I was in the middle of the business because I thought everything ran through me.
James Kemp: Um, and, and it really didn't know. It was just the results is what people wanted. They wanted me to help them get the result rather than go through me and that took me a little while to. That took me a little journey to said it was about five months before I even started having the confidence really to go out there and mark it. I was making content and I was blogging and I had some media or, and you know, getting some pr and those kinds of things. I was getting leads coming in and I was getting clients for different things, but we're saying yes to everything. And while I was focused on ecommerce, we were still. I was still being that generalist. And um, I remember I remember five months and I took my son Max to rainbows in the been park in New Zealand and I've launched my funnel, my pride and joy that I'd worked for weeks on end.
James Kemp: I launched my funnel and I turned my phone off that day. That was a Saturday and I remember us coming back in the car on the way back to. We left on white at the time on the way back to the ferry. And I turned my phone on and I had four client bookings the next week, like in my calendar, qualified and locked down and I think that was a moment where I thought, oh shit, I can, I can make this work, I can get people on the phone and sell them a product and sell them on an experience that that gives my knowledge that doesn't leverage bridge may that I'm not in the middle of and I can do that over and over again. And that was the beginning of some really, really rapid scaling we're going and where we're heading and some months, 200 grand and happy clients, happy delivery. And that was when I learned about that I had to scale to the next, then start hiring people and getting help around that.
Sam Ovens: Got It.
Sam Ovens: And so for people listening, just so you can just, they can understand what was the, what was the niche that you were helping?
James Kemp: I was helping ecommerce businesses grow online sales. So we taught them, you know, that they're pretty, they're pretty typical stuff that works, you know, a social ads, email automation, email marketing, a website optimization. And branding and positioning and um, it was, it kind of just when shopify, most things were reaching the mainstream, so there was some really, um, you know, there was some great opportunity in that market and it was really, that was really fun and pleasurable to work with businesses grow as well. So we're very much focused on ecommerce businesses that were kind of doing six and scout them towards seven.
Sam Ovens: And what was the problem?
James Kemp: Silos, you know, um, and, and really getting an Roi from their online marketing. You know, everyone was dabbling in facebook and instagram and verbal thing, youtube paper, click marketing was going up massively in terms of costs and people are having a hard time getting a handle on it. So, you know, small business owners alone just wanted to know where to spend their marketing dollars and how to get the best results from it. So you know, predominantly, you know, what we taught them as was around facebook ads and the automation and building a lifetime value of a customer.
Sam Ovens: Got It.
Sam Ovens: And you had some knowledge around this because you, your job was, what was your job at? Grab one,
James Kemp: I was the marketing director, Grab Ron was at the time, the second or third biggest online website and New Zealand for silence and talk down about 112 million in annual sales. So I ran a team of um, of marketers, um, and you know, it was really responsible for capital of the paper around product development and innovation. So yeah, we, we, we had, I was running a six a day, um, you know, uh, online, online business at the time in terms of all the marketing and the direct selling. So I took those skills and then applied them to small businesses. They obviously worked.
Sam Ovens: Got It. And it's interesting because you went from being marketing director of $100,000,000 a year, New Zealand ecommerce business to then going and consulting ecommerce businesses, which makes sense, but you still had a lot of fears around like around doing it, right?
James Kemp: Yeah. Big Time. Yeah. I think that the traditional road and you know, and all my friends were telling me I couldn't do the thing that I was doing. I had to turn up and sit in a boardroom with suits and ties and build a strategy that no one would ever execute for a company that would pay me a great deal of money. Um, but consulting was this thing that you did, you know, consulting was to the next step for people who had my job and go out on their own. Um, so to actually step out of that kind of echo chamber in that bubble was really challenging for me, mainly emotionally in terms of. And again, for man by stepping up until I left, I left the job site and do that anymore.
Sam Ovens: Okay.
James Kemp: So it was hard to kind of step out of the thing that you normally do when you leave a really good job.
Sam Ovens: Got It.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. It's kind of similar to ironman the. When I've, when I first left my parents house to go and like live on my own, it felt similar to that. It's like some kind of independence. We're,
Sam Ovens: you,
Sam Ovens: you have a lot of responsibility. It's like if you, if you fuck it up 10 your you, there's a, there's a lot of consequences. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's like paying rent and all of that on your own and because you're used to having a. you're used to having your mom and your house, but then now you're responsible and I guess a job is kind of similar to that. Not It's not the same, but it's, it's a, it's a similar thing. We are like unhooking from something and now you're on your own.
James Kemp: Very much so I think and jobs and traditional consulting route so you can hide as well. You can really fly under the radar and be pretty average frankly a lot. There's a lot of unfortunately very average people out there doing very average jobs that they managed to to hide it and when you're out there and you have to market and you have to attract people and you have to go trust and creative or let's say, then you, if you fail, you do it in a more public way I think because people can see it. So you're, you're putting more. I think reputationally on the line in your mind, but the reality doesn't really work like that. I think, you know, no one really knows, um, how, how successful or unsuccessful people are that only comes with time in terms of the results you actually deliver on what people say about right?
Sam Ovens: Yeah. That's a good point because I interview a ton of people fight for the past six months. I interviewed 15 people a week for, for our company and they're already screened pretty intensely. Like these are top one percent people and I still can't tell you how many people will fail. Like the tests we give them, like we give them special kind of like problem solving exercises that are like real life and it's unbelievable. This is like the top one percent and one of the best states and one of the best cities and one of the best countries in the world in this area. And we're looking at the top tier of people and still most don't really know how to do it. And that just shows you that 99 percent of the people out there in jobs aren't really, like, they're not, they're not really like that good edit and they're kind of like hiding a little bit and when you stay up how to run your own business, it's just, it's, you can't hide whether you code hide, but then you would, you'd fail. You know what I mean?
James Kemp: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I think that's really true. I think that's getting more acute and this kind of hyperconnected transparent world we live in, but it's very difficult to hide for too long. Um, and time is a great leveler of, of those things. And I think when you see the market for consulting and education and all these things that are now quite low, barriers to entry are very crowded. I think paying attention to the people who've been in it for awhile and generating results for awhile as a healthy respect to, to work out what's, what's good and what's bad.
Sam Ovens: Hm.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. Times the thing that gets most people because you can use it look real hot for a little bit. And then it's the time that proves whether someone's committed to it and whether they're willing to enjoy it is, it shows you how much someone cares about it.
James Kemp: Yup. Yup. Yup. Awesome. Share something. Last year I transitioned from a commerce, um, because what happened was I was so successful so quickly and voting what we call it, ecommerce engine program. I'm so successful so quickly that people wanted to know how I did it, so they wanted to know how they could get clients online. Um, and I, I resisted that for a long time for a lot of reasons. I think partly because I, again, like slight imposter syndrome, um, partly I think partly out of respect for what you're taught me as well because I thought, oh, that's your market and buy my ideas on that slightly different these days. Um, but over and over time I realized that teaching people, you know, traditional businesses, how to use the Internet rather than teaching people how to build a business on the Internet was the thing that we got very good at.
James Kemp: Um, so over the past 20 months we morphed into a business that helps, you know, specialists, experts and professional services companies generate leads and develop a leveraged product. And that's been really rewarding because we've helped a lot of non typical people do that. Um, you know, we've got lawyers and immigration consultants and insurance brokers and we're going to really diverse. I think we counted them. I got like 45 different kinds of job titles and now in our community. Um, but what that caused over the past year was confusion for me about how I survived because I got very kind of bogged down in the niche thing. I got very bogged down and like, are we, do we do, we ran up where he didn't want to focus on these coaching businesses. So these consulting businesses or these lawyers or these doctors. Um, and that Kinda got me into a bit of a Tesla and I, we've talked about this kind of privately.
James Kemp: And then I realized that really it was the attitude of my clients. That was the thing. It was the characteristics of my clients that my clients wanted to be the thing that we had above the look of what our product is branded, which is they wanted to be the authority, you know, one of my longterm clients, he's a lawyer. He wants to be the best lawyer, have the best legal company, have, you know, be seen as the go to man in his field and he wants to be the number one. Um, so I've, I've, uh, sometimes I think I've seen in the and, and your communities as well, and I think this will be helpful for people. People get very bogged down in the niche. They get very obsessed with a very narrow nation, I think as an industry vertical. And I think sometimes it's more healthy to look or what kind of clients you want, what type, what characteristics they have as, as people and where they're at in their lives to help to understand how you help them more. Um, because sometimes it's not my thing that you think it is. Lots of people want to make more money. Lots of people want to make more sales, generate more leads. My clients want to be seen as the number one and all the benefits that come from it.
Sam Ovens: Yeah, I think people definitely make that mistake. They just, when they hear the word niche, they think of industry.
James Kemp: Yeah,
Sam Ovens: like accountants or lawyers or consultants, and then they get stuck because then what if they're working with all three of them, then they're like, oh, I'm being a generalist, but not necessarily because the niche like and it was just a small cluster of something or is a slice of something and it's important to pick a niche because you can't focus on everything, so you need a niche but not a niche in the sense that it's an industry vertical. You need some way of grouping together a cluster of people and it doesn't have to be industry vertical. It could be low geographic location. It could be business owners in Oakland. All right, or it could be business owners in Germany or whatever. Like you can use location. You can also use. You could even use six like a. You could do female business owners and you can overlay that over location, female business owners in Oakland, or you could use different income ranges or you could use the broad category of what they're doing, so like people selling our services and all. You could solve like a transition, so people who are selling services who want to transition to selling some kind of product, which sounds like what you're doing and people want to be an authority and also probably move over to selling products
Sam Ovens: and then you. Yeah, you can focus on any one of those different things. All of those. There's really a niche, but I bet your people get just stuck on the. On the industry verticals, which is. It's very hard to explain that to people. When I made the same mistake when I got started too.
James Kemp: I think we've all made a different time. I've, I've, I've, I've made that mistake repeatedly by, by hasn't killed me, but by kind of getting too obsessed with kind of having that North Star and having too many characteristics. One hundred percent right. The main motivating factor of our clients is to stop trading time for money because they've got the expertise they've got, they've got genuine value and impact more people and correspondingly more money for doing that. Um, but yeah, I thought I'd see a lot of people get stuck there being two to vertical focused on
Sam Ovens: and for people listening to you can start narrow and make it wider over time. Like mine's. I started out helping SAS business owners to start selling digital marketing services to local businesses to generate cash to then invest in your business. And it's about isn't it as it gets and now it's evolved to like helping people start and grow businesses and yours as evolved a lot to. You just were helping ecommerce businesses in Auckland and New Zealand, but we're pretty much all of your clients in Auckland.
James Kemp: Pretty much, yeah. I mean we were kind of like 80 percent or 10 percent of the rest of New Zealand and then we started to go into Australia.
Sam Ovens: Got It.
James Kemp: And tell me how that's evolved. Like, how did you know at what points like that it was time to widen that net. The I was very focused on building a highly valuable product and just selling it over and over again and scaling it and deliver a scale, you know, sound more, deliver more, sell more, deliver more. Um, because I'd spent many months kind of like, you know, we had 26 different things that we did when I was doing consulting, like we did services, we did this, we did. Someone asks us to build a website, would say yes. And um, so I, I was determined to be very focused to one product and do it well and then do it over and over again. Um, it took me, it took me four months at least to listen to the market to say the volume of people that were coming to me that we're being attracted through funnels and the and attracted through my copywriting and attracted through, um, the content that we're putting out there when there was an equal number of people who had services and professional services businesses that weren't as ecommerce.
James Kemp: Even though we were marketing to ecommerce, I kind of felt that I was shaking because I was actually fully focused on ecommerce businesses. About half of the people coming to us didn't have ecommerce business. And the more I explored that market and the more I realized the average customer value is a lot higher. They route to convert a customer is a lot simpler. Can you get someone on the phone and have a well structured sales compensation and sell them a high value product. And frankly, if I'm delivering more value by delivering higher value to my clients, then I can capture more value and subsequently make money. Um, but it taught me because I was so focused and it took me a long time to listen to that.
Sam Ovens: Got It. And then let's talk about, well this does a couple of main points I want to talk about. One would be the getting your first client after leaving, grab one because that and for people listening, grab one was the full time job because the first client after quitting your job is always hard or at least it appears like it. And then the second one I want to talk about is how when you made the decision to go from selling done for you services or like one on one to the online programs. And then the third one would be how will you, what it took to scale to 100 k a month? Because I think those are the three points that people, they're the ones that people generally want to know a lot about. So let's start with the first bit. So did you get your first client before you quit your job or did you quit your job? And then I'm going to get my first client.
James Kemp: So
Sam Ovens: my first client, I cheated because my first client was grabbed one. A lot of people would love to do that.
James Kemp: That's you. Be Honest and tell them that the thing you want to do is go to the next, move onto the next thing. Do that, you know, you, you tell them you're going to leave. Um, and you tell them that hiring, hiring, as we talked about before, hiring talent is very difficult. Getting the right people is very difficult. The best person to hire talent in many cases, as incumbent person sitting in that chair. So if you, if you tell, if you say a business that in 90 days I'm going to leave and these are the things I'm going to do, um, I will help you hire my replacement and restructure that. So there's a smooth transition because businesses understand that. A transition of a business, especially a very senior person. I was one of the top six people in the company of over 100 people that my transition would, you know, probably material in the business and you don't want it to, you don't want it to do that.
James Kemp: So you'd be very honest with them, you tell them that you're leaving and then you work out financial know financial break, what day are we going to leave and what day do I have to turn into a consultant? Um, so that means that you can essentially have a soft landing out from a job into a, into a consultancy arrangement where you're working for yourself. I highly recommend that route as well. I, I, I highly recommend that to make it a soft landing, but be aware that you can get trapped back in the thing because they just keep coming back and then you've just got to come in. Just got a job on a contract so it can be. And I stayed a little bit too long there. Um, my second client was a woman who had a clothing brand in Perth and northern Australia, I should say in an article about that I'd written for the New Zealand Herald. I contacted me and asked me to help her, um, for ecommerce business.
Sam Ovens: And so those two, I, I can, I can see what people would be thinking now if they're listening, they're like, oh, he got his first client because it was this job that then hired him and then his second client saw an article he wrote in the news, but I, my job isn't going to hire me as a consultant. And then also I'm, I don't have any articles in the news and nor is the news probably gonna care about me writing anything in there. So yeah. How did you get. What about your first client where you were, you had to hunt them in and you didn't have any kind of any advantages?
James Kemp: I wrote a guide and I've still got it. Twenty two growth hacks for your ecommerce business. And actually I actually cheated a little bit because I think, and I think more people should do this. I'm either a little high level strategy session for a business that was related to grab one that was in the same parent company and I didn't get paid for it. I just, I just helped them out and are actually wrote a brief and I created, I created some content for like a half day workshop and then Matt, I said, this is your checklist for all the things that you need to be doing right now to grow your business, and then I documented everything that I'd created. It took me a few hours, Mike, and then I'll that into a report which was essentially a downloadable report people could download as a lead magnet. I understood I had lead pages and all those things at the time and I gave it away.
James Kemp: I didn't even run any paid traffic to. I just reached out to the people, sent it out. A few people shared it out. I've got got quite a few clients from that. Just get on the phone, tell them what I was going to do for them. I go from one on one calls for x number of weeks and they got access to my training program, which was just a google drive folder with lots of stuff inside of it. And I built the course a couple of weeks ahead of people as I went along and I stayed in that state for a long time without really getting any predictability into doing it. I was just getting onesy twosy. Um, and I, I didn't really push the pedal down at the beginning. I don't really know why I didn't at the time
Sam Ovens: you wrote the report, but how did people find the site with the report existed?
James Kemp: Uh, I, I was running, I think later on I ran a few facebook ads, um, and I dabbled with those, but like just a few dollars at a time. Um, so yeah, just, I just ran a really simple funnel and, and got people on and then got people on the phone, um, and said, do you want to do this? I'd dramatically undervalued myself at the time. Um, and uh, yeah, just kept it really simple. I knew it, I knew I knew plenty about online marketing. I knew I was getting results for other people, but paradoxically sometimes we don't do the things for yourself that you do for your clients.
Sam Ovens: And was this you were selling light per hour or how will these consulting agreements or like what was your, your service delivery model at that point in time when you first started?
James Kemp: I'm pretty sure we just did a, like a six or seven wait kind of gagged where I got them like one on one calls once a week. Um, and the headaches, all my templates and my material I had, I had a lot of Ip and a lot of Info that I can give people and the, all those kind of things morph because people have more questions as they went along. So I had to those clients in the early days.
Sam Ovens: Got It. How much were you charging for that?
James Kemp: Two and a half grand. Got It. I remember mindsets. About $1,500. US.
Sam Ovens: I remember my first one was a dropbox folder and it was a thousand dollars New Zealand for access to that dropbox folder. But also six one, oh it was six weeks in one,
Sam Ovens: one, one hour, one on one call
Sam Ovens: every week for six weeks and it was a grand New Zealand yet. So similar kind of thing. But you charged more
Sam Ovens: and how
Sam Ovens: much were you able to scale that to using that model there before you kind of reached a limit?
James Kemp: Oh No, not a great deal. I think put it put me ahead of it, put me kind of a little bit ahead of what I was doing in terms of like consulting, like daily consulting but not. Not. Not a lot.
Sam Ovens: And then
Sam Ovens: when did you make the decision to that you would have to kind of go into a program and at that point when you joined up level and started working with me, what was the problem you were facing then and that and that thing that made you think or I need, need some help with this and I need to transition to this different type of model?
James Kemp: I think it was. I think it was two things, a lot of angst I'm internally about just not fulfilling my potential that I had a really valuable thing that I can give people. Um, but I wasn't reaching enough people and I was working really hard. I didn't feel like I was getting paid enough to justify or how much I was working because remember I had a really good salary. I left a really, you know, are really well paid job, so I had expectations about what my earnings. Um, and so I think it was asked around pertain show and also around the time I called you, I had a huge tax bill. I can't remember whose gst or income tax or something like that, but you know, one of those early business mistakes where you just don't put enough aside and you're like, oh shit. And it was a big, a big whack 'em.
James Kemp: And, and I think the third one was know consistency and predictability when you're bouncing all over the place. Um, you know, I've got two young kids and both of them both their arrival. It's kind of narrowed it a little bit of a, a thought process of can I keep loving bouncing around with unexpected bills and those kinds of things. So while we're, while we spent, you know, I came out of a great job and when they spend time doing well, I don't think I, I wasn't very financially responsible and, and consistency. I think that just mainly on the emotional rollercoaster all the time. Some months were good and other months would not good.
Sam Ovens: What made it inconsistent?
James Kemp: I didn't have a predictable way to get clients and also that the, my client delivery was, I was, I was drowning in my, my ability to serve my clients. You know, there wasn't enough hours in the day or enough energy to, to, to do a good job. Um, you know, that, that negative flywheel that, that you talk about, you know, the more more clients should add to the experience and the results and the value. I was in a situation where one on one with sprinkler work through some services, through context and referrals and those kinds of things, um, was in a negative way. The more clients are brought on the hat or went to work.
Sam Ovens: Got It.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. So one thing kind of causes the other. It's like your problem is you needed more, you needed a predictable way to get clients, get more clients and make more money, but you don't have any time to really work on getting a predictable way to get clients. And then even if you did work on a way to get clients predictably, then you'd have more clients that you'd have to deliver services to that you already have too many services to deliver. So it's like, I remember what it's like to be in that position. It's, it's hard. And then if you don't deliver for like a client, then you might lose a client, insulate you spending time trying to get a client at the cost of losing a client and you're just, it's like trying to spin all these plates on the sticks and it's really jumped in between them.
James Kemp: And um, one thing that we work with our clients on to make sure they don't wait. Call that straddling when people are in two worlds, you know, they're in the old world of trading time for money and the kind of bogged down consulting in the new world of product ties and leverage delivery that's really hard to when people actually doing back on that journey and they've got a few people in both camps and we call that straddling. And that's really hard because straddling hurts. So one of the things that we help people do as a pilot program or a group where they get a large cash injection, you know, um, I've had a client recently, she sought out a brand new program, brand new group program. She's doing, you know, and a couple of days she gets a big cash injection. She has a fixed number of people and she can afford to say no to the previous work and, and make that transition quite quickly because she's got the confidence the sales are in the door and she's got a, you know, and then she can focus on delivering and then she can close the program for a very short period of time and then open it up again.
James Kemp: And the new people while we're building the legion, right? So that is a big challenge for people to transition models. I took too long and I've got trapped between those two worlds and I don't, I try and help people not make that mistake again. So they're not straddling two different business models at the same time because like running two different businesses.
Sam Ovens: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: It's also, you can't ditch one completely and then go do the other because. Because that's your, that's, that's your only income.
Sam Ovens: Yeah.
James Kemp: Yeah. That's very difficult. But there are ways.
Sam Ovens: And so that's the problem you faced. And then how did you think that I was going to be able to help you with it?
James Kemp: I believe and you know, the only tree from the world is what people have done, right? You know, and I had many, many times when I've been to them to coaching and mentorship over the years and you know, on reflection as, as just as much value in seeing how someone does something as well as the things I teach you. Um, and when you can, you can deconstruct processes and those things. And having talked to you, having seen your success and seeing and seeing the things that you did, I saw, I saw, I had that I could do this moment. Oh, eventually. I think I had some resistance in mind.
Sam Ovens: Um,
Sam Ovens: I think so, but I, I think it was still kind of getting into it, like from the time when we first spoke at that cafe to the time when you joined, it was a few years, but one year we're still spent at the job and in one year was probably just getting started. And then you got to that point and then you joined.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. Yeah.
Sam Ovens: And so what happened once you're joined up level?
James Kemp: It took me. I was, I was pretty slow to, to execute things properly. Um, I didn't, like I said, I think the first, the first major move, and you told me this and it was kind of counterintuitive. Do you said that the most transformational thing as you know, building that program, voting that, that group program and being able to get you out of the grind. And I thought it was the leads. I thought it was getting more leads and getting more sales and it wasn't, it was really, you know, developing a proper structure that I can put people in and having the confidence to transition away from one to one to two to group teaching and communities and saying the benefit of that. Um, so I was pretty slow to do that. Um, and like I said, it took me five months to really start pumping and leads to do that.
James Kemp: But as soon as we did that and we had a product that we could, we had some confidence in the way we, we really put the pedal down. I put the price up from two and a half grand, four and a half grand. I'm not resistance, bitter experience, get results. Um, and then later on we put it up to 6,000. And um, yeah, it was just, just, you know, where you're really focused on getting qualified people on the telephone, talking to them, understanding whether we could help them. Then they're a good set and uh, and I'm making them an offer if they were.
Sam Ovens: And what was the experience like building the program for the first time?
James Kemp: Why? I think you, I think when you build your face educational programs, you tend to think that the, what you need to include in there is everything. I think you tend to think that they need to know everything and the whole world that you've ever learned about the topic at hand. Um, I love your frame on this. Actually. The more complexity that that I go through, the less complexity my customers will go through. And I thought complexity was by teaching a lot of volume by giving them a lot of stuff. And the reality was what is the fastest route to get? What is the result they want, what's the outcome they want, and what is the fastest route to get there with the least amount of steps and the simplest way while giving them the context of why they'd going the thing they're doing. Um, you know, for example, if you're teaching someone facebook ads, it's not facebook ads, it's facebook's, just the channel and the vehicle.
James Kemp: Let's. It's the copy is understanding your market understanding of framing up your offer. And all the context of how to fit all those things together so they're bigger than the sum of their parts. Um, so I would, I found that quite challenging because I didn't know what to put in now. And then over time I realized that your job is to give people the fastest route to the result that they actually want. And as long as you're focused on the end, you're very clear about the result that they want. When the current state you can just, you can make a program and an experience as efficient as possible.
Sam Ovens: It's pretty hard when you're, when you have forced for the first time to take what you know and what you do and turn it into a process because it kind of all seems like it's magic or intuition or, or some kind of thing. And then when you have to like write it all down as your brain has to go so much slower because you're used to just doing all of these things are moving your hand and all of that too. And then now you've got to break it all out and you're like, oh my God, there's so many things in here, and the sequencing of them is so crucial and someone's not going to know that piece and you just mentioned something like copywriting and then you're like, wait a minute, they don't even know what that is. So even this one reference you make out to copywriting, you now have to go out there and explain that entire library and then come back and say, now that's what you put in there. And then you move onto this tracking thing and then you're like, shit, they don't know that. And then you go out there to a pixel. They like, they don't know what that is. Google tag manager. Then wait a minute, they probably don't have a website. Now that domain, how do they do that? DNS sitting it. It's. There's a lot of stuff that actually needs to go in there, but at the hard part is figuring out what. Because you, if you try to put everything in, you will never get it done.
James Kemp: No, I think in terms of the cadence of how you take people along so they feel like they're winning or having insights and in moments, you know, quite regularly and the order matters a lot. And I think the biggest thing over the years that we've changed is the sequencing of how we teach things in the simplification of those things because the, the order really matters. But if you're focused on what your outcomes, your customer wants and when and what expectations they have and as long as those expectations aren't realistic. And I think especially in this internet marketing space, so many people can come in with very unrealistic expectations of what they're going to get and how quickly, um, as, as long as you're clear about what outcomes and expectations people have a, you know, when and how I think, um, you know, then you can do a really good job of getting them there no matter what you're teaching.
Sam Ovens: And so we discussed how you got those first clients. Then the problem you faced with the one on one and then transitioning to the program. And now, how did you scale to 100 k a month,
James Kemp: done the same thing over and over and doing it? Well, I'm generating more leads, scaling up ads every 72 hours,
James Kemp: um,
James Kemp: getting more people on the phone, getting bitter sales course. I'm having a process with, you know, that kind of 45 ish minute kind of cool.
James Kemp: Um,
James Kemp: and doing it over and over again.
Sam Ovens: So it's getting one machine in place that works, making it work better and then just pumping more volume in it. Just again, again, again, again.
James Kemp: Yeah.
James Kemp: Once every time. I've made this mistake before though, you know, and I've made it recently because I like making things. I like creating stuff, you know, and every time you get away from that, so a painful problem with a highly valuable product and experience and you start adding all these things and complexity. Um, you killed her, you killed the golden goose. He killed the thing in the middle and you know, the, the, uh, the thing that, that I did was just over and over again. And then I've got other people to do it and I answered the telephone and they did the sales comps.
Sam Ovens: Yeah, there needs to be.
Sam Ovens: I guess the way I kind of envisioned it as like a factory floor that's manufacturing. I don't know if you've ever. If you imagined model t, the Ford model t production line back in the day where at token role materials like it literally token just absolute raw materials and then out the other side came a car that worked and that was there was flow through that production line in all of those pieces had to be there and it was just all about making sure that production line didn't stop anywhere and then it kept flowing and it's very easy to see that if you look at a factory floor, because it's physical and material and all. As soon as it stops, the car stopped coming out the other side or a little process breaks down and that stops the whole thing. But it's very hard with the Internet in a virtual one of those because you don't really see it and it's kind of hidden. But that's still what you need. You need a way to to put traffic into it, an intake it along that way and convert it and then out the other side make that happen and the bitter until you get one of those in place and until like businesses just random and then once you've got one in place, you have to continuously just keep honing and refining it, pumping more traffic in and you can't forget about it. And I think a lot of people forget about it.
James Kemp: I think I made the mistake that a lot of people still largely they think growing a business, businesses, adding more staff, really growing a business as distilling, distilling away all the impurities and all the crap and the shit that builds up naturally in business and in our minds and getting to that very core essence of the problem you solve and for who. And then having a system to get into their hands and then doing it over and over again. Because I thought business was adding more staff, doing more services, making more products, launching more things. And really the thing that got me to grow was having a system that is a way to focus on what's that thing that we're going forward and yeah, it works, right?
Sam Ovens: You need more throughput, which requires more input but not more process, not more things. So like, you know, when, when the model t production line, they didn't build like another production line. They still at one but they just made it, they made, they created more raw materials coming through and then they had more throughput. So out the other end the things came faster out the other side and so you are adding more stuff but it not more production lines or processes or things. Because even the model t they only made one model and only in black.
Sam Ovens: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: That was actually part of how they were able to get it that damn efficient.
Sam Ovens: Yeah.
James Kemp: Yeah. And right now as you know, as I sit here now way we sell one thing and then our out of the program hasn't been available for five months and we're, we're rebuilding and reconfiguring how we deliver that. Um, and then in March we will sell to things. Um, so yeah, and you know, having that simplicity and elegance is, um, is really liberating in a, in a business because you're very focused on, on what you're doing and you know, occasionally and you know, you have innovation within then the occasional revolution and that's what we're going in with one of our more entry level products as it's going through a revolution. It's just taken us six months to do it.
Sam Ovens: And why'd you move to Bali
James Kemp: Family life, the balance of, business, that business ecosystem community here, the intimate set a stage where it is a very easy to run a business from. I'm good for the family. We choose to quality of life.
Sam Ovens: What was that? I just wait a second. The Internet just got bad.
James Kemp: Oh, just one of the things I said about Bali was the, was the Internet was great and that,
Sam Ovens: it's kind of ironic at that moment. The Internet got real bad and had all just leds.
James Kemp: Oh, I still am. I always the way,
Sam Ovens: but what was the reason? So you said the Internet got better, but what was the thing you said about you chose to educate your kids?
James Kemp: Yeah, we homeschooled a majority of last year, um, and there's a very small school with
James Kemp: ancient and they did a lot of diverse stuff. Um, and the other reason that I don't know if you've got just around our kind of personal health and personal optimization, that's a super relaxing place. It's super easy place to look out. Eight, eight, extremely well. There's a lot of them
James Kemp: What chest sexualizing tends to involve a whole and those kinds of things. Not to do. I mean this is a place where you know, your socialization on your and the way that you and your, you're more likely to go and meet someone at the gym to catch up with her other than you are to go to a bar and get snatched up the way we live our lives and it's an amazing place in terms of meeting people. There's a lot of people doing really cool stuff here and there's a lot of good thinking.
Sam Ovens: Got It. Cool. And
Sam Ovens: what's next for you? Like what, what is your goal like one year, five years out from now with your business?
James Kemp: Yeah, they, I think we've been introduced, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm 40 in the not too distant future. I'm a lot of my contemporaries coming to that, to that age. A lot of people are struggling with the world the way it is, you know, they've, they've followed the rules, they've got to, they've gone to university, they, they got the job, they got their qualifications and they're in these kind of professional gates. Um, and my, my, my focus is helping them show an alternative way about how to love their lives, um, and, and, and ultimately grow their business so they have the same choices that I do about where I love, what I do, what I do every single day, how my family loves as well. Um, so we're, we've introduced a lot more kind of holistic elements. We've got a health coach inside our mentorship, inside that community.
James Kemp: So we've got, we've focused on a lot of those things as well as helping people grow their business. And um, we call it three dimensional, you know, being, you know, not just a business machine and make shitloads of money, but actually be fully functioning person that's looking after themselves. Um, so we, we're very much focused on I'm doing that for entrepreneurs over the next 12 months. Um, and then we're gonna we're gonna show a lot more of what we've learned with people around educating our kids as well and preparing them for this, uh, new and exciting world. So, you know, we're starting with data with entrepreneurs and helping them grow a business and grow themselves. And then over the next five years we're moving on to different subsections of the, of, of those markets around children and young adults as well to help them be entrepreneurial minded. But also, you know, have, have a lot more focus on self care. So we are at our core and education company and the kind of mentorship we call it, the human accelerator. We don't even call it a business program anymore.
Sam Ovens: Got It. Awesome. And
Sam Ovens: for people listening, how can they learn more about you and what you're doing?
James Kemp: A visit my website, which is completely out of date now find me on facebook, you know, facebook is where I did a lot of live video, a of a lot of, a lot of um, a lot of sharing and caring. Um, so I share a lot of stuff pretty frequently. Um, so look me up on facebook and send me a message if you, if you need me,
Sam Ovens: James j a m e s t e m p on facebook. Awesome. Well thanks for jumping on and sharing your story. It's cool to see what happens. And in six years
James Kemp: it's been a journey and I'd, you know, I'd sincerely want to thank you. You know, yourself and some other people have been a, you don't climb the mountain on your own. Um, and you know, doing this, doing these things are not easy. Um, but they've got to be simple and you definitely, you know, you're doing the good work and helping people grow. Great businesses. And this is the, this is what you get when you, when you put the work in.
Sam Ovens: Thanks man. Cool.