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How Hunter Otis Turned His Rampant Porn Addiction Into A 6-Figure Business

How Hunter Otis Turned His Rampant Porn Addiction Into A 6-Figure Business

Summary


How do you turn the thing you're most ashamed of into a 6-figure business you're proud of?

Hunter Otis was addicted to porn and it was so bad that it almost destroyed his marriage, family, career and life.

He was so ashamed of it that he didn't tell anybody and kept it buried under the rug...

When Hunter decided that he no longer wanted to work a 9-5 job and wanted to get into business for himself, he joined the Consulting Accelerator training program and started going to work.

He picked real estate agents as his niche and thought he'd help them get clients using Facebook ads -- this bombed miserably.

Hunter was frustrated and confused why nothing was working and one day he got on the phone with me and asked me what he was doing wrong.

I told him that the only reason he'd picked this niche is because he thought it would have money and therefore make him money, and that he had no passion for this and was unlikely to make it work. I told him that he must have something better than that... Something more personal...

He left the call to reflect and two days later he'd found his new niche "porn addiction recovery". When he came back to me with this I said "This is it!".

Hunter went to work on this new niche and in 6-months he had a 6-figure business and was working full time for himself.

This is an awesome story and it shows you how easily a life can be changed for the better. Check it out and let me know what you think in the comments below?

Here's what we cover:

1. Why Hunter hated his tax planning day job and decided to start his own business.

2. Why Hunter's first two niches failed miserably for him: Helping real estate agents get clients and generalist sales coaching. (big lesson).

3. Hunter's big mistake: Not talking to the market and assuming he knew what was best for them.

4. Moment of breakthrough: Forgetting about the money and focusing on solving true human problems instead. (ironically, this lead to making more money).

5. Why you need to do done-for-you or 1on1 coaching/consulting before you think about creating a training program.

6. Why great training programs are simulations of atoms using bits and why success must be present in atoms before replicating it in bits. (this will blow your mind).

7. Why you must break your current beliefs/perspectives/ideas/identity if you want to make progress, grow and change and how Hunter learned this the hard way.

Hunter's #1 piece of advice for Consulting Accelerator & Uplevel Consulting members:

You just have to get started! Who cares if what you start with ends up being wrong, you have to pick something wrong to discover what's right.


Do you want to get results like Hunter?

Hunter's transition from $0 to $16,000 /month was made possible by joining the Consulting Accelerator training program and then later joining Uplevel Consulting.

The Consulting Accelerator is a 6-week online training program that shows you step-by-step everything you need to know so that you can start your own consulting business, get clients and make money in 45-days or less!

Interested in learning more about Consulting Accelerator?

To Enroll in the program today, click here for the sales/enrollment page.

To learn more about the program, click here to attend a FREE training session.


To Your Success! 

Sam Ovens & the team at Consulting.com.

Transcript / MP3

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Sam: Hey, everyone. It's Sam [inaudible 00:00:02] here, and today I have Hunter Otis on with us. And Hunter's got an awesome story. And Hunter is in the porn addiction recovery niche. So, first of all, a unique niche which you've probably heard me talk about before. It's not your standard helping somebody get clients or helping someone with Facebook ads or something like that. This is quite different, quite unique, and not to do with making money. It's how to stop a destructive addiction. So Hunter joined Consulting Accelerator in November of 2016. And back then when he joined, he was working a 9 to 5 job and he didn't really like his 9 to 5 job, so he joined accelerator and he went through the program. And the first niche he picked really didn't work out that well, which was helping real estate agents get clients online. And we're gonna talk about that. And then something happened, like a big shift happened where I was basically talking to Hunter on the phone, and I said, "This isn't your niche," and I was like, "You must have something better than this." And he comes back the next day or the next week or something, and he's like, "It's porn addiction." And I was like, "That's it. That's the one." So then he got into the porn addiction recovery niche, and that's when things really turned around. And how he's been able to grow his business up to the point where it's making about 16 grand per month, so into the six figures. And he's quit his job and is into this full-time. So in this interview, we're gonna discuss how he picked his niche, why he wanted to quit his job and how he grew and scaled up to 16k a month. So thanks for jumping on with us. Hunter Otis: Yeah, no problem. Sam: So let's start in November '16. What was going on then? Hunter Otis: Sure. So I was working for a tax resolution company, so a team of attorneys helping people resolve their tax debt with the IRS. And I was doing sales. And it was good financially. I was making over six figures per year with that. But I just ... it was like torture at times. It's not something I'm extremely passionate about. I was good at it, but my heart wasn't in it and I was working more like 10 to 12 hours a day, Monday through Friday, and really couldn't be with my family. And it just wasn't fulfilling. There wasn't a lot of personal growth happening at that time for me, and it was tough. Sam: Got it. And then how did you come across Consulting Accelerator? Hunter Otis: Sure. So actually my wife told me one day, she was just like, "Hunter, you're not stuck. I know you're making really good money here." It was the most money I'd ever made in my life at that point. "But you're not stuck. You can change this if you want to." So what I actually did is I found a life coaching program just to teach you basically how to be a life coach. And I'd been a personal trainer and things in the past, so I wanted to get back into coaching. So I took that program, and it was like a six month training course where you talk with a coach once a week for six months straight. And then I got picked up by your Facebook ads, probably because of that is my guess, because before I did that, I didn't see any ads for anything like what you did until I started taking that program. So that was actually really cool that happened. So I got picked up by your ads. And at the time, I was just thinking, "Oh cool, I'll start this coaching thing. I'm gonna help people with sales coaching, which is what led to the real estate agent thing, and then I'll use Sam's program to figure out Facebook ads, and I'll use Facebook ads to build this coaching business." But I had no idea that I had everything completely backwards from this other program that I took really on how to get ... that's really what led me into your program. I saw your webinars and immediately was like, "Dang. This guy knows what he's talking about." It took me about a week and then I just jumped in and paid for it in full. Sam: Got it. And you said you started everything completely backwards. Explain that. Hunter Otis: Sure. So, basically it was the idea of if I start a business, people are just gonna show up. I'm gonna coach people and help them become better salespeople and everyone's gonna want this. So although I picked a demographic, like I wanna help salespeople, but that's insane. What kind of salespeople? There's so many different things that you could do there. And then I didn't have it defined at all what I was actually gonna be helping them do. I was just gonna coach salespeople, that was it. There was no, "I help blank by blank to blank." "I help people to do this by helping them with this to get x amount of dollars in sales." There was no definition of what it was at all. And then as far as getting clients goes, the tactic that I was taught was to basically get people on a free coaching call, offer them basically a free session, and then hope that they want to continue with me by delivering awesome value in that session. Which, yeah, you gotta deliver value in that first conversation, but there was no sales ... Because you wanna help sales people, but then I was doing no real sales to try to get them to work with me. So it was all screwed up. And then I jumped into Accelerator with all these preconceived ideas of what I was gonna do. So I really wasn't listening fully to what you taught. I just came in and was like, "Okay, I'm just gonna cherry-pick Facebook ads," instead of doing all the real work. And then when I got to you ... So that's actually what I was doing when we were first talking was I was trying to build like a mindset program for salespeople. And then you were like, "Dude, you completely built a business around what you want for yourself. Have you mastered your mindset?" And I was like, "Uh, no." And you really snapped me out of that fog and that's when I selected the real estate agents and you pretty much ... it was the same thing, but you were like, "Hey, at least you're gonna pick something real instead of this idea in your head that nobody actually wants." Because you were like, "People don't buy mindset programs. That's not what they buy. They buy their future of what they're gonna get from it." So then I jumped into real estate just to pick a niche. It was like, "Okay, digital marketing for real estate agents." Because of the sales thing, I was already connected with a bunch of real estate agents. And so that was the path of least resistance. So I just did market research, talked to eight different real estate agents, realized that of course they need help with their marketing, so I jumped in. But I hated it and I couldn't get any traction. I got one client I think, maybe, but it was for free. It was in exchange for testimonial, and it was just torture to me trying to do the tech and figure all that out. I hated it. So, that's when I had to go back totally to the drawing board and land on what we're doing now. Sam: Got it. So this is a common mistake for people listening. It's like we don't go outside of ourselves to think about what others want. We assume that we know what everyone wants without talking to them, which kind of doesn't make any sense. It's like that, "What does Susie want for lunch," example. It's like you're both sitting on ... she's there, you're there, and it's like she's hungry, she wants something for lunch. And you're over here, you've gotta guess what she wants for lunch. You can't without asking her. You could have a quantum computer, you couldn't figure that out without asking her. But if you ask her, you find out what she wants, then you give it to her. But people just keep going around inside their heads trying to be like ... trying to figure out what it is. And then it gets so tangled that what usually ends up coming out, which is fascinating, is exactly what they need right now. So you see people who don't have any customers, and they'll literally want to create a training helping people get customers, which is really funny. Or someone who will help someone to get to six figures, and they won't be at six figures. Because they get so tangled in their own thoughts, that they mistake what the market wants for what they actually need right now, and they think that's what it is. It's just real messy. But that's the kind of crazy shit that happens when you don't talk to the market, you know what I mean? Hunter Otis: That's exactly what happened to me, 150%. Yeah. Sam: And sometimes, though, what you really want ... because what you really want and need right now, that means that you don't have it right now. And so that means it's probably hard for you to teach others how to get it because you don't know how to get it. However, this thing works when you go back in time. So if you solve a problem that you used to have years ago that you actually fixed, that's different because now you know that you know how to solve it, and now you've got a fact check that other people out there in the market have it. So, just trying to clear that up for people listening how you can really know if you're delusional or you've got something. Hunter Otis: Yep. Sam: So let's talk now about how that ended. So how did you change and go into something else? Well, first of all, how did you know that you had it wrong with this real estate niche? Because I know a lot of people are probably in something, they're trying. How did you know in that moment that this is dumb, I need a change? Hunter Otis: I think the biggest thing was just that I hated it. I didn't enjoy it at all, zero. I just wanted to provide for my family. That was really the driver behind it. It was like, "Okay, if I can do this and figure this out, I can make a living for my family, put food on the table." But I just did not enjoy it. It didn't resonate with me. I wasn't passionate about helping real estate agents. I couldn't care less about whether they were successful at selling houses or not, which was ... so what a terrible thing to do, to be trying to help people sell more houses but not care whether they sell houses or not. That's really it. So there was no passion there, there was no driving force behind me. There was nothing ... I didn't want to get out of bed in the morning and get to work because it just seemed like drudgery. And that's what I was trying to escape from. I was just recreating exactly what I had before before I quit my job. So that was devastating to kind of come to that realization, but that's when things really started to shift. So, once I figured that out, I was like, "Okay, this sucks. I can't keep doing this." Then, actually ... and I shared this in my testimonial video, but there was a guy that posted in the consulting community about how he signed up a couple in divorce proceedings for like 10 grand a month or 15 grand a month or something like that. And I saw that and it just hit me like, "Oh my gosh, this guy is saving marriages." And back when Nicole and I were first married, she was a therapist already at that point, and she and I had talked about how cool that would be someday for both of us to work together and help people save their relationships. That was something I guess we'd put into motion several years ago. And so when I read that post, it hit me. I didn't fully realize what was going on internally at that time yet, but I couldn't stop thinking about that moment. Oh my gosh, that guy's helping people and he charged this much. And then I told Nicole about it that night laying in bed, I shared that with her, and she just said, "Hunter, what if ..." and it was silent for a while. "What if we helped couples overcome pornography addiction and help them heal from that?" And I just ... it was one of those firework moments where it hits you and you're just like, "Oh my gosh, that's it." And I had thought of it before, but I was still so ashamed of my own addiction at that point that the thought of telling anybody, outside of the close circle that I had supporting me, I couldn't bring myself to do it. I couldn't even speak the idea to my wife. She's the one that had the courage, because she doesn't have any shame around that at all. She just said ... she just spat it out there. And boom, it was exactly what was right and it's what we knew about and had experience with. So we just ... pretty much it took us a week to chew on it, and then after that, that was when I came to you and was like, "We've got it. I've found my 2.0 niche. This is it." And I knew it. And I didn't [inaudible 00:14:30]. This one, didn't know, I knew. That resonating feeling ... like I say, the real estate, it was just dead flat, nothing. And when this idea was just spoken, it changed something inside both of us in an instant. And it doesn't always happen that way for people. I don't want people to think that, "Hey, this is how I'm gonna know that this is my niche." Oftentimes that's ... I mean, look at what happened with me, I really picked two different niches, well, the first one wasn't really even a niche, but I tried two different ideas and they both failed. So if you're trying to find the first idea and you have this pillar of light moment that changes everything, that's not how it works. You have to jump in and try something and know that it's not right to then get to what is right. And that's like with everything. So that's like with picking a niche, but also with trying to improve yourself, like recovering from addiction, you have to just start trying stuff and take the feedback, which is what was so powerful about your program, that resonated so deeply with me, was just that iterative process. Hey, you don't know what works until you try something. And then you get feedback. And if it didn't work, you don't do it. If it worked a little bit, you try to do more of it and see what else you can discover. And that's really it. You just keep cutting the fat, cutting the crap out that doesn't work and doesn't get you what you want. So that's really what happened for us, how we picked our niche and how we knew it was right. Sam: Got it. And it's interesting the change in thought pattern that you had. Because you used to think the real estate agents or coaching these people with sales is probably a big variable in that decision and thought processes, do these people have money and how can I help them make more money? You know what I mean? Hunter Otis: Right. Sam: Because you're trying to optimize for money, and you're thinking, "Oh, people only buy stuff if they have money, and people with money only buy stuff if it makes them more money. And all of this money stuff's important because I want money." Hunter Otis: Right. Sam: You know what I mean? It really pollutes the thinking a lot. But then you see an example of somebody who is making quite a lot of money helping people save their marriages, which isn't to do with money, and it's also not gonna make them more money. It could, maybe, if the dude's gonna lose a lot. But it doesn't help the couple, you know what I mean? And so you're probably thinking, "What the hell? How is this dude making lots of money without any derivatives or instances of money in there?" And that then changed your thinking to, "Well, money must be about solving human problems." And then once you start thinking about human problems, it's like boom, there it is. Hunter Otis: Yep. Sam: And that's so important for people listening. You've gotta take your eyes of the money because money's what comes after you solve the human problem. And so you've gotta start with the human problem. And that's when the good ideas come. Hunter Otis: Right. Well, that's the problem is that we all want instant gratification, right? We wanna be able to just instantly just start making a ton of money. And that's where I was stuck. And for me, it's when you release that attachment to that and are willing to finally solve a real problem, yes, find a real problem, but then do the work to really educate yourself and become a master at solving that problem. That is when you really start getting traction. And it's not until you do that and let go of this, "I want to have ..." And I had this problem. It's like I wanna have a seven figure business right now. Well, you can't build a skyscraper on a sandy foundation. You need to be a master at solving that problem. And if you can master that, then the money just comes naturally as a result. Sam: And so what happened next? You're like, "This is it, this is the idea," now what? Hunter Otis: Yeah. So, we had had some profiles out on Psychology Today, it's a therapist profile website. And Nicole was on there, she had some profiles because she's a therapist. So we just changed her messaging on there a little bit to say that we specialized in helping people overcome pornography addiction, people dealing with affairs, sexual addiction, infidelity, etc., etc. And I think within two days of changing that message, we had somebody call us for a consultation. And I talked to that couple, and closed them for a full pay right on the spot. Sam: I gotta rewind a bit, because there must have been some stuff that happened between the idea and the client. So, what ... because you had the idea, then you would've done some research, right? Like to see if ... because you had the idea, "This is it," but you probably wanna check that other people have this problem too, and then you also need to think how you're gonna solve this problem for them. And also, what I think is important, which I wanna talk about too, is the ... why this niche resonated so much with you. One thing we've seen, a common theme between all of these interviews is that people are passionate about the problem or people have experienced the problem in their own life and solved it so they know it, it's personal to them. Because not everyone could just think of porn addiction and then be like, "Oh, I can make a lot of money helping people with this," because they don't know how to, you know what I mean? Hunter Otis: Right. Sam: So, how did you know that you'd be able to solve that problem for people? Hunter Otis: Sure. So, I struggled with pornography addiction, specifically most of my life. I was first exposed to it when I was nine years old, maybe sooner, but I don't remember. Sam: And how do we define pornography addiction? Hunter Otis: Sure. So this isn't just you've seen it every once in a while or you looked at it and viewed it with your spouse here and there but it doesn't have any pull on you. You can still be totally productive, you're not thinking about it all the time. It just is a thing. It's like going and getting a cup of coffee or something. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking an obsession. You have a lot of usually psychological pain that you're trying to numb with some kind of substance, whether it's drugs or alcohol, partying, or pornography. You're seeking a dopamine hit, one, because you're brain is wired because you've done it so many times that the Pavlov's dog thing, you're biologically wired to just want it physically. But usually you're wanting medication for the soul. And you feel like you can't survive without it. Whenever that pain comes up, anxiety, whatever it may be, shame, you medicate it with this thing. You try to escape reality. So that was my problem was I wasn't happy with my reality and I had a lot of self worth issues and things like that just because of my past, things that I personally had to work through, but I was medicating all those issues with porn. Sam: And what's some symptoms people would have? I'm just trying to ... because there's some people I'm guessing are watching this, and they're like, "Am I addicted to porn?" You know what I mean? So what are some symptoms that these people who have addiction typically display? Hunter Otis: Sure. So overall just a lack of productability, I mean productivity. You just can't seem to get anything done. You're just distracted. It's like having ADD on crack. You can't focus. For me, maybe somebody will relate to this, it's like I'd sit down to get work done, and literally like I would go through this ritual of, "Okay, first I'll escape by reading emails. Then I'll escape by surfing Facebook. Then I'll escape by watching YouTube videos." And then suddenly I'm watching porn. And then because you're watching porn, and it's such a powerful dopamine dump in your brain, it's way more fun than doing hard work. So then all of a sudden three hours go by and you've been watching porn that whole time, or longer. Some people, it's like the sun comes up and the sun goes down, they're still watching porn. I think you know there's a problem if that's happening. But that's what it was like for me. Then you get into it and you can't stop. It's like, "Oh, I'll only do this for 10 minutes," and then three hours go by and you're like, "Oh, shit. What did I do again?" And then you feel bad because okay, I just missed out on three hours of closing sales. I didn't mow the lawn and I didn't do the laundry and I didn't make dinner for the family because I was watching porn. And now I'm lying to my wife. She's asking me what it was I was doing during that time and I feel much so much shame and guilt that now I'm lying to her and damaging our connection and destroying my relationship because of it. I'm now irritable and angry at my children because now I'm feeling pain and I wanna go look at more porn, but now I've gotta be dad and I can't. So now I'm [inaudible 00:24:29] kids and lashing out at them. And after ... if you're looking at porn and you masturbate to porn, then that dopamine drops off afterwards and you're left with nothing. You're left with emptiness. So then you're just really frustrated and angry because you don't have this big high anymore, you're down here. Sam: You need to stop hitting your hands on the desk because it's making the microphone ... Hunter Otis: Got it. Okay. Sure. Sam: So that's interesting. The time thing makes sense. You say you'll do it for this and then you end up ... it sounds like me and work. It's like, "Oh, just do this." And then it's like 15 hours. And so someone's got this porn addiction thing. What makes it bad? Why is it a problem to the person that has it and why do they ... what is the mindset of that person? Why do they wanna stop it? How are they suffering and how's their life worse because of it? Hunter Otis: Yeah, oftentimes people ask me this question. They ask if religion is the key factor in people making decision to overcome pornography addiction or sexual addiction, because we have clients in the full spectrum of everything. But it's not. It's not. In fact, what I've found is that the religious aspect is often the driver for the deep shame that drives them into secrecy. And I'm not saying religion's bad, it's not. But often that shame is what keeps people from really letting people in, getting help. "If somebody knew this truth about me, they'd think I'm disgusting and they'd leave." So that's really not the factor at all. What happens is people get caught by their spouse usually. Or they're in such a state of torture that eventually they come clean. But usually they're caught. Sam: So the huge driving force is they've got a relationship and their wife or girlfriend catches them, and now it's threatening that. So now it's not just that they feel a bit ashamed, it's that they might lose their partner. Hunter Otis: They might lose everything. They might lose their partner, they might lose their job, they might lose their kids. I mean, everything that matters. Sam: How do they lose their job? If their boss catches them watching it or something? Hunter Otis: Yeah. If you're looking at porn on their computer at work, they'll get fired like that. Sam: I say to my guys I wouldn't care if I caught anyone watching it provided you were good at doing your job, you know what I mean? But I guess someone who's addicted isn't gonna be good at doing their job. Hunter Otis: Right. They're gonna be wasting all their time. Sam: They'll be like, "This guy isn't doing any work, but he is watching porn." Because if I found my top person watching porn, I wouldn't care, you know what I mean? Hunter Otis: Right. Sam: It's kind of like how Goldman Sachs doesn't do drug tests. Hunter Otis: Right. The thing is, it's not a morality issue. It's not. Okay, I don't agree with it morally myself, but that's not the problem I'm solving. I'm not saying, "Fix your moral issue and stop looking at porn." Most of these people I work with already don't want to view it, but they can't stop. So it's not about morality. It's about the damage it's having on their life. It's about the lost potential and all of that. So that's always funny when you put ads out there and people are like, "Oh, just watch it with your wife. There's nothing wrong with it." It's like, "You don't get it. It's not about the moral issue. It's this is stealing away all of my creativity and I can't do anything. I am trapped." Sam: It's like the difference between having a glass of wine every now and then or drinking five bottles a day in secrecy. One is fine, the other is bad. Hunter Otis: Yes, exactly. That's exactly it. And the other thing that's significant, and the reason why Nicole and I work together, is because we help the betrayed partner as well. So, whether there's been an affair, or the person's used prostitution, or they're just addicted to porn, it doesn't matter. Their spouse is often dealing with a whole reality shift. This person has been lying to me for sometimes 30, 40 years. We have clients that have been married like 38 years, and the whole time they had this secret life. That is devastating. They have to rethink everything. It's like, "Do I even know who you are? You've been lying to me this whole time and you are the person that I trusted the most. I thought you shared everything with me." And so what happens is the spouse experiences betrayal trauma is what it's called, where they literally are traumatized, and so they are living in this ... it's really like a living hell. They're just in this state of extreme pain where they're reliving that discovery over and over and over again. And they're questioning their safety. They have no safety anymore. Their foundation is gone. And so that's really the angle we've decided to take is we have now ... we're building a track for just addicts and then a track for just betrayed partners so they can work their recovery separately and heal from the challenges they each face individually. But then we're also creating a track for the couple. So once they do their own work, then they can come together and rebuild the relationship. And that was hard to come to. So you said to back up a little bit to what happened before getting that first client, is that was really the decision we had to make. Okay, do we just help porn addicts or do we also hit the real pain point, they're wanting to not lose their family. That's why they're calling us. So do we just help the porn addict? We could, but it's probably not the best approach. Because the porn addict could totally recover, but if the betrayed partner isn't able to work through the betrayal and that trauma of that, then the relationship's still gonna fail. They're still gonna lose everything that they love. So then they're just gonna relapse into looking at porn. If they lose what they have then it's like, "See, it didn't matter. I stopped and I started getting better, and it didn't matter anyways. I still lost everything." So we decided to say, "Okay, we're gonna help the addict. We're gonna help the betrayed partner. And we're gonna save the relationship. That's the goal." And that's the messaging that we really started off with out of the gate. So you can imagine the power that that has. So then from there, yeah, we did still do a month of market research. We went to a bunch of forums and groups and posted, "Hey, what do you think about this?" A group of betrayed partners, a Facebook support group, "What do you guys think? If we did this, would this be a good idea?" And everyone was just like, "Yes, yes, yes. We need help, we need help." And then even talking to some addicts, the same thing, "Yeah, I wish that I could get help and my partner could get help at the same time because that's the hardest part of this whole thing is what they're going through." So we did that. Then, like I said, we tweaked the messaging on those Psychology Today accounts. I think we only had one or two of them at the time. And then had a phone call come in right away, because there was an offering for a free consultation there. And I talked with them, and 40 minutes later, they're a full paying client in an instant. And I just offered ... at the time it was eight weeks of coaching. So one session per week over Skype for an hour to 90 minutes, depending on how long it took, and that was it. After eight weeks they were done. And we got a lot of feedback from that. And then the next consultation I had, I closed that one. The next consultation I had, closed that one. I think it was four or five in a row. Sam: How much were these clients for? Hunter Otis: $3700. Sam: Nice. And then one question I've got is how did you know that you would be able to solve this problem for your clients? Hunter Otis: Yeah. You know, there was a lot of insecurity there for me still because really, what I know now, after doing this for the last year and half or so, was that there were a lot of ways that I still needed to improve. So really, I guess my understanding of sobriety, just not doing something, is completely different than recovery, true recovery, changing your life on all fronts. But what I did have, though, is enough experience in sobriety that I had confidence that okay, I think that I can really help somebody at least stop this behavior, stop acting out on it. There's a lot more pieces that I still need to figure out, but I at least know enough, and Nicole knows enough on the betrayal side, where we can do this. And that was it, that was enough. And that's the thing, I think what stops a lot of people, and it was interesting in your interview with Matt Kaufman, I saw him talk about how a lot of therapists don't pull the trigger on marketing and stuff like that because they want it to be perfect. They want that messaging to be absolutely perfect before they do anything. And they're so paralyzed by that. And that's a human problem, we all have this perfectionism and we think we're gonna be rejected. But you just need to know enough to have a little glimmer of hope like, "I can do this." And then if you have that, and you jump in and go for it, you can find all the other answers you need. Yeah, it's gonna take a lot of work. There's no way around it, you need to do a lot of work. But the thing is, it doesn't really feel like work when it's something that you're really passionate about and know it's going to change the world. Then that's all you want to do. Sam: See, you had experience yourself with the problem and the pain, so you knew that well. And you had solved it kind of through sobriety instead of full transformation, but that was better and further along than most other people. So you're helping them improve but not fully get to the end yet, but you figured through this you're probably gonna figure out how to get to the end as well. Hunter Otis: Yep. And I can see that in retrospect now, but at the time, I didn't see all that in that moment. But it was enough to really get us started. And we made a powerful impact right out of the gates. Sam: I saw this thing happen where there's this phenomenon that exists with people who have beaten drug addiction, or any form of addiction, and then they get put in a position of authority or teacher helping other people, and they all relapse because it's like they start ... everyone thinks, "Oh, this guy is the chosen one because he solved it, he doesn't have any issues with it and he can fully do it," but when they start to think that themselves, they get caught. You know what I mean? Hunter Otis: Yeah. Sam: It's kind of like what's another situation where we see that? Like basically a university degree or something. I didn't even graduate, but because I went to university, I thought, "Oh, I'm real good at business," but I wasn't. And that can trick the person sometimes. Because you've never arrived and never need to worry, it's always a thing, you know what I mean? Hunter Otis: Right. Sam: So you had confidence you were gonna be able to add value to these people's lives. Now let's talk about how you're going to deliver that. Because you've got this lined up in theory: here's the market, here's the problem, here's the pain, here's the current situation, here's the desired situation. I can help them do this because of this. But how were you gonna deliver that to them? Hunter Otis: Yeah so that evolved over time. I think the first few clients, I just, with talking to you, you were just like, "Just hop on Skype calls," because that's what you did. You just started by coaching somebody over Skype. So that's just ... I just did that. So you had me build out one to two weeks worth of content, that was it. And then just build out the rest of the weeks based on what they needed in real time, what was the next step for them in that process. So I did that once. And then I got another client, and we did it again and iterated it and made it better for the next time. Then we did it again. So it's probably three or four times, we just hand delivered it over Skype, one on one. And just shaped the content based on that. And then from there, we went and built out an online program. And that's when basically it's all the deliverables are done without us having to do anymore work, and they're able to go through the videos, just like your program, and do the ... download exercises and do the work on their own. And then we changed to a group format at that point where then at that point we had two calls per week that were each two hours long, where we're supporting them and answering all their questions in real time. And there we were still feeling a lot of holes. There were a lot of holes still in the program at that point, a lot of questions that aren't answered yet. So we're answering those in real time on those calls. And that frequency really was a game changer, being able to talk to people that frequently, helps them get that support they need early on when the program's not fully ... it's not as detailed as, say for example yours right now, because you've been doing it for so long. But then from there, still, our clients are all happy with what they have at this point. They're all getting really good results. But then Nicole and I, as we learn more, because we were just so hungry and wanted the best education that was out there, as we were making all these new discoveries, we know where all the holes are when are clients have no idea that there are holes. So then it makes us ... we actually slowed down. We slowed everything down. Plus we had a lot of personal issues, things that started to emerge that we're realizing, "Okay, I need to get finances better under control. I need to get a little bit more of a balance in my life and make sure that I'm actually a dad. That my kids have a father and a mother. We need to fix a lot of fires that were in our own life in order to really ..." Because we tried scaling, but it just didn't happen. It wasn't even that we got a bunch of clients and couldn't handle it. We were bringing in more people every month, but it was just this feeling, this ... there's something more, there's something that we're missing here. What is it? And we were just starving to figure out what it was. So we've started flying all around this year, getting the best education out there on sexual addiction. And we've found incredible, incredible answers. And now we're rebuilding the whole program again, and it's gonna be ... I don't know how many times better, but significantly better. And that's the thing is with this whole process, it's ... when you're focused on really providing the greatest value possible to your clients, stuff just happens. We did 16 grand this last month, and you know, to me that's not a lot of money at all, but we didn't try to do that. We still just have a couple little profiles out on psychology today and that's it. We don't have Facebook ads, nothing. We have not done any marketing really at all. And they're just coming because we have real value. So now it's like, okay, I know every single month I'm making more money without trying to make money. It's happening because we're focusing on creating the best customer experience. And from there, that's why I know, this next version of the program's gonna be more hands off on our end and allow them to have really even more power in their own hands to change their life. But that's why I know we're gonna be able to scale no problem because we're solving a real problem. Sam: And there's one thing I wanted to ask too. You ultimately wanted to create a course and a program for this group of people, right? Then when you were on the phone with me and we were talking about this I said don't create the course yet. Just do one on one coaching with these people over a Skype call first. How important do you think it was doing the Skype one on ones first before creating a course? Hunter Otis: Oh, it was absolutely critical. Sam: Why? Hunter Otis: Absolutely critical because you don't know what needs to go in there. The problem I had before, thinking I was gonna make a mindset training for salespeople, I was coming up with all these great grand ideas of what should be in there when I had no clue what should have been in there, what people's actual problems were. You can have a hunch, you can have a good idea of what the problems are, like I actually did suffering from pornography addiction myself, but you really don't know until you start working with them. What worked for you might not work for them. And so you have to go in there with an open mind and just really listen and be intuitive to what their needs are and then build it out based on what they need, not what you need, but what they need. And then as you do that, then it starts to be clear of what needs to go in that online program. Okay, I connect these dots from this client, this client, to this client, that all makes sense, they all needed the same thing. That's something that's gonna go in the online program, because I've had feedback now. Sam: And this is something I tell people all the time, I swear they still don't listen. But it's like they wanna create a course, they're like, "I'm just gonna create a course. I know what needs to go in this course." And I'm like, "Don't do the course, do the done for you first." That's where most people learn. Every one of my best clients and me learned done for you. Done for you as in like doing digital marketing, setting it all up for the client. Now in the porn addiction niche, you can't really do done for you because you can't be that person, you know what I mean? So the equivalent of that is one on one. And you can do that over the Skype calls. And why we do that is because that's a real life one on one scenario. It's very easy for you to iterate and help a person throughout their journey. And then you do it like twice, three times. Now you notice the patterns. Now you know what needs to be in the program. Because all a great program is is a simulation of atoms using bits, you know what I mean? So if you're having a conversation, you're using your mouth, you're two organic machines, humans, talking to each other, exchanging information and you're figuring out a process. And you're helping that person make a transformation. Now you're just trying to simulate that using videos and a portal and all of this. But you can't simulate something unless you know what the thing is. Otherwise you're just trying to simulate nothing. That's why it ... It never works when people just go straight to the program. Hunter Otis: Right. And the other cool thing is that Nicole's still running her private therapy practice, and she had quite a few clients that were dealing with pornography addiction or sexual infidelity in their relationships, so we were able to get feedback from our clients with Becoming Porn Free, but then also she was able to start testing stuff immediately with her clients that she already had. And that was so powerful to be able to just take all of that information and everything we had learned and all the new research we were doing, and just be able to test it. That's the key is testing your ideas and seeing what happens in the real world, and that's where the answers come, not from your own head. You might get the idea, but you'll never know if it's right until you try it with real people. Yeah. The other cool thing is because I have the personal problem, I can still test ideas on me and I can see, even though I'm not acting out in my addiction, I can still see what impact it has on me and have a pretty good idea and a pretty strong hunch that this is gonna work for other people. And then I can test it on them and confirm that if that's true or not. And that's what this whole process is. I test on myself and then I test it on my people. If it works for everybody, then boom, it goes in the program. Sam: Got it. I still think one of the best advertising channels for you would be to sponsor some of the hottest porn stars and get them to get a tattoo on them that says "Becomingpornfree.com," so that it's hidden in there, you know what I mean? People would be like, "Why has everyone got this tattooed on them?" Hunter Otis: Subliminal messaging throughout pornography. Sam: All the ideas are exciting when you think about a unique niche. When you think about how are we gonna market this thing to real estate agents, it's like I'm already bored. You know what I mean? Hunter Otis: Yeah. Sam: I'm even thinking about a real estate agent, I'm bored. But when you start thinking about porn addiction, there's some cool things to play with here. Hunter Otis: Right. And then the different angles of it, the betrayed partner, the relationship, the porn addict. There's just so much to it. And that's challenging because it's a very complex issue, very complex. Once you do all the research, hours and hours and hours of research and real world experience, then it all becomes clear. Now, it seems very simple to me, but to an addict and in this relationship, it seems totally overwhelming and impossible to overcome. But that was ... you know, you talked about eating your complexity, that's so powerful because like I said, I could have just chosen to just help porn addicts. But I knew, because I'm in a relationship, that there's more to it than just that. And so yeah, it's way more complex dealing with ... Basically, in essence, we have three programs now because we have to deal with three different issues: addict recovery, betrayal recovery, relationship recover. Sam: They're all really the same thing. Hunter Otis: They are but they just have to be approached differently. It's like three different processes. They're all intertwined and they all influence each other, but it's three separate skill sets really. But we eat that. Sam: You're not making three different programs are you? Hunter Otis: No. So it's all the same program, but there's three different tracks. Sam: That's the way to do it. Hunter Otis: Yeah. Sam: Because there's never just one track. There's so many different ones. You need to make it one program with the flexibility to handle a wide array of tangents, you know? Hunter Otis: Yeah, exactly. And that's what we're doing. But we do have separate calls now. Instead of just two calls, we do four. Because we have a call for just addicted spouses and a call for just betrayed partners. So that way, because we found that- Sam: It's so good to mix those things too you know, because sometimes the best thing for the addicted porn guy is to hear the other girl's point of view. And he's like, "Oh my God, this is what I'm doing to people." Hunter Otis: Yeah. So Monday and Thursday it's all group. So men and women all together, And then Wednesday night we have an hour and a half call for betrayed partners and then an hour and a half call for addicts. And then we have a Facebook group with them all together and a Facebook group with them all separate. Because we found that, hey, when everybody was together 100% of the time, we weren't getting the traction that we wanted with them, they weren't opening up because they were too scared. But then once we split them up, boom, they just immediately ... those groups just took off and started just creating a powerful support network for these people. And now they're more comfortable getting on the group calls because they know that hey, on Wednesday, I can talk about this stuff that I'm too uncomfortable to say here, and vice versa. It's just getting so much better, There's still gonna be so much fine tuning with all of that, but that's the cool thing, it's all changeable. You find what works and you make it happen. You just create it and you just go with it. So it's pretty exciting. Yeah. Sam: Awesome. So what is the goal for you? What's your vision, mission? Where do you wanna be 5, 10 years from now with this thing? Hunter Otis: Sure. So, really, our vision is to impact the entire world. Sexual addiction is plaguing the entire globe right now and it's coming in many forms whether it's porn or prostitution or affairs, or whether it's abuse of children, all kinds of stuff. It's become so distorted. You can find anything you want online and any time you want. And it's really distorting the human mind. It's a mind virus. People are seeing people as objects and we wanna change that. We want to bring a real connection and love back to the world. And so the vision is to bring this everywhere. To have Becoming Porn Free be something that everyone knows about. Where individuals ... because right now we take individuals as well as couples, it's not just couples. Because of those separate tracks, it works for everyone, right? So we want everybody to be able to come in that's struggling with this issue in whatever degree that is, whether it's escalated to prostitution, or if it's just looking at porn in your closet, and be able to get the changes that they want so they can live out their full potential in life and have fulfilling, deep, lasting relationships and families that bring them true happiness. And then also be able to just learn to be happy themselves with wherever they're at. And again, it's about achieving that full potential of what they're capable of. That's what it's all about for us, So, yeah, we wanna bring it global, bring it worldwide. And that sounds a little scary, but at the same time- Sam: Is porn addiction bigger in any one country have you found in your research? Hunter Otis: Most of the pornography's made in the United States for sure. So I would say the United States is ... I don't think the research necessarily shows whether it's more just the United States or globally, but- Sam: That would be interesting. Hunter Otis: Yeah. I'll have to look in to that. The United States for sure is really bad though. Sam: THey're great consumers, Americans, of everything. Hunter Otis: We sure are. Yeah. So, it's for sure the United States is a big, big problem, but it's everywhere. Sexual addiction has been an issue since the beginning of time. There's research back like Socrates talking about it and stuff like that. So it goes back really far. Sam: We're biologically hardwired for it because we need to for the survival of our species, right? Hunter Otis: Right. Exactly. Sam: When we put that into a video where you can look at infinite instances of it all the time and the brain doesn't notice that it's different. So that's why it's so ... because it's ingrained in our DNA, so that's why it's so powerful, you know? I've seen brain scans on people where they get them to watch porn and then they get them to do cocaine. And then they get them to go on Facebook. And they show how addictive different things are. And the porn one's bigger than cocaine. And Facebook is almost on par with it, which is like ... Hunter Otis: Crazy, right? Sam: Porn's very, very high. Your brain just lights up when you start watching that stuff because it's like in our core DNA. Hunter Otis: It's like [inaudible 00:53:59]. Yeah. We're wired for us, so it's a natural evolutionary response. But yeah, when you put high definition streamed porn on a video, your brain doesn't know- Sam: With very attractive people too. Like it's the ultimate ingredient. Hunter Otis: With perfect looking people. Right, the brain can't tell a difference if it's happening in real life or not. It doesn't know. Sam: Wait til virtual reality comes out. Your business is gonna blow up. Hunter Otis: Yeah, it's crazy. It really is. But it's hard because [inaudible 00:54:36] of having no power. That's really an illusion because you always have that power. I had the ability to reach out and change the circumstances, and everyone does. If somebody's listening to this, you absolutely have the power to change, but you don't think you do, you don't feel like you do. And to be in that state and watch everything start slipping through your fingers no matter how hard you try, no matter how hard you work, you still keep failing over and over. It's just this horrible, negative feedback loop that just destroys everything in its path. And unless you are able to break that cycle, that system and start getting a new feedback loop going for the right direction, it's gonna destroy your life. And literally sex addicts kill themselves. It goes from pornography to acting out physically with people, random hookups, prostitution, people get STDs, AIDS, they die. They give it to their partners, their partners die. It's killing people. It's not just something that ... like I say, it's not about a moral issue. It's about this is literally killing people. They're committing suicide. People are castrating themselves because they can't stop. That's how serious this is. It's not about just looking at somebody take their shirt off. It's about a lot more than that. Sam: And what would you say has been ... after going through this whole process, through the Accelerator and Uplevel Consulting, what would you say has been the one most transformative part of the whole training? Hunter Otis: Honestly, man, it was talking to you, plain and simple. Jumping into Uplevel and having somebody help me snap out of my own delusion. And that's what overcoming addiction is all about too. Because really that's what it was, I was addicted to my own thoughts, my own ideas, and my own really failure. I was creating more and more failure. I was addicted to failing. And you helped me snap out of that. So it was speaking to you and having this ... you had leverage because of where you were personally, and you said a few words, all it took was two minutes, and I was like ... I had this all wrong and I need to change everything. And that's literally, this last year, everything has had to change about me personally and quite literally in every aspect. And speaking to you helped me do that. And then everything else that you taught all started clicking into place. Then I finally started listening to all the content that you worked so hard to create. But you have snapped me out of it, yeah. Sam: Awesome. And you've been in the community, you've been one of the people, the struggling in a niche like you've been. You've seen what goes on in this journey and in the community of others. What would your number one piece of advice be for them? Hunter Otis: I would say you just need to pick something and you need to start. That's it. I don't care what it is. If it's digital marketing for real estate agents, just pick it so that you know you hate it. You need to just get moving because that's the only way you're gonna find what you're really meant to do. And you might jump into a niche like ... I can't remember what his name was, but a guy doing digital marketing for dentists or whatever. He just picked it and jumped in and turned out being something he loves. You might experience that too. But that's what you need to do. You just need to jump in and pick something and focus on providing real value. And if you do that, you're gonna find the answers that you're looking for. You're gonna provide help to people. You're gonna make some money so that you can make more. And that's it. Sam: That's good advice. People often ask me how did you pick the right niche? I'm like, "I picked the wrong one 12 times." Hunter Otis: Yeah. Sam: That's how I found it. Hunter Otis: Right. And then you have to be willing to do the work in every aspect. Like you said, people don't have business problems. They have personal problems that reflect in their business. So if something is off over here, it's gonna throw this off over here. You have to be willing to sacrifice your ego and improve in all areas. That's what you have to do. You have to take care of your health, your physical health, emotional health, financial health. You gotta look and face it all. You've gotta grab hold of reality by the horns. Otherwise you're just gonna keep spinning your wheels. Sam: Cool. And how do people learn more about you? We're gonna put this on YouTube and some people who are watching this might be like, "Oh, shit, I'm addicted to porn," or they might know someone who is. How do they learn more about you? Hunter Otis: Right. So our website's becomingpornfree.com. We have a presentation on there that you can watch. You can schedule a consultation with me right online there. Watch the video, schedule. There's also links to schedule on our contact page there on our website. And you can email us at [email protected] We also have a phone number on our site, so if you wanna just call directly and get on the schedule immediately, just give me a call. Sam: Awesome. Well, thanks a lot for jumping on and sharing your story. It's a good one. I like it, it's unique, and it's big. I know it's a big problem. It's painful and it's unique, so it's got all the good ingredients of something big. Hunter Otis: Sure. Thanks, man. Thanks for all your help. Sam: Cool. Hunter Otis: It's been life changing. Sam: Thanks. We'll talk soon. Hunter Otis: Sounds good. Take care.

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