How do you go from Zero to $25,000 /month consulting?
That's exactly what Chris Wills did by age 21.
Chris lives in Ireland and all his friends were at college smashing back beers and eating Mc Donald's, but Chris wanted more from life...
He didn't want a job, he didn't want four weeks vacation and he didn't want to live paycheck to paycheck using alcohol and Netflix to numb the pain.
And who could blame him?
Chris joined Consulting Accelerator when he was making $500 /month doing odd jobs as a sporadic kindapreneur and student.
He focused in on the financial advisor niche and used direct outreach via LinkedIn as his secret weapon.
In this interview I drill into the details so that you can learn exactly what it takes to go from $0 - $25,000 /month by age 21 when everybody else around you say's you're and idiot and it can't be done.
Here's some highlights:
1. Why picking a niche and sticking to it is essential to build compound interest and eventual success.
2. How to use LinkedIn to build a network of people in your niche and how to find them using all the possible names used to describe their industry and their position as owner.
3. How to transition LinkedIn connections to "15 min chats" and then to strategy sessions and ultimately paying clients.
5. Why strategy session volume is vital so that you can cherrypick from a wider pool and not get desperate.
6. When to transition from done-for-you and 1on1 to the online course and group coaching model and how to go about it.
Chris's main advice for other Consulting Accelerator members:
Don't fixate on your financial goal, set the goal and then fixate on the actions required to generate that goal.
Eg. Instead of focusing on making $100k /year focus on doing 10 strategy sessions a week and 2 hours of direct outreach per day.
Outputs derive from inputs, garbage in garbage out.
Check out the interview and let me know what you think in the comments below?
Sam Ovens: All right, welcome everyone. Sam Ovens here, and today I want to interview another one of our Consulting Accelerator customers, so today we've got Chris Wills on. How's it going?
Chris Wills: It's going well, man. Yourself?
Sam Ovens: Good thanks. So Chris has an awesome story. He joined Consulting Accelerator back in 2016 when he was kind of a student but wanting to start his own business, and he had tried a few things like network marketing and stuff, but couldn't really find something he was passionate about or something that he could really do well in and make some money in, and that's when he found Accelerator and since then it's been about two years, and he's been able to start his own consulting business helping financial advisors, and he's been able to grow his business to at the point now it's about $25,000 a month. So first of all, congrats on that.
Chris Wills: Thank you very much, man. Yeah, it's been a good journey.
Sam Ovens: So why don't you tell us exactly where you were when you got started with Accelerator, like what was life like back then?
Chris Wills: Sure. I've been messing around with network marketing and that, and I will call messing around with because it wasn't a super serious consistent thing, since I was probably about 15. And I'd done a little bit of success in that. Probably $500,000 a month. Didn't need a job during school, so that was kind of good. It kind of worked out as I had instead of a part-time income, I could do a little bit of network marketing on the side and that and it would really work out, and it was a good thing to do, but it wasn't ever really going to be something that could sort of sit and say, "Look, I don't need to go to university. I don't need a job. I don't need any of that there," because I'm not realistically making big enough money to sort of say, "Look, I know what I'm going to complete covered. I know that I'm going to be doing extremely well over the next few years," because it could have been hit or miss. A fine $500,000 income or that from network marketing could disappear very quickly.
And it was something that is quite prevalent in that industry, that you'll see people that will come in and they'll make a big income in a company. The company will go bust, and they keep switching and switching and switching. It's a huge thing. We just jump from thing to thing. It's near like shiny ball syndrome, and that's not something that I really wanted to do because how can you sort of say with conviction that you're going to be able to make a huge income 12 months or in five, 10 years from now, when you really don't know what you're going to be doing at all. And there's no idea. You have no real sustainability or consistency in that.
So [inaudible 00:02:33] came across a couple of great guys. Louis Marker. Don't know if you've ever heard of the guy. Massive into financial independence and all of that there. He's very big into trading, however, so I took quite a while and learned how to trade Forex and stocks and that, but I never really had the capital to do well. I could do a couple of percent a month, which is awesome, but realistically with a small capital base, you can't really do very much of it. If you've got 1,000 pound and you make three or four percent a month, great, you've made 30 pound. You've made lunch. You can buy lunch once a month. It's not really going to be that big an impact on your life.
So one of the most successful people I ever seen with the trading, and actually the guy Louis himself, they both men sort of came out one time and said that they used trading as an accelerator for their wealth, so all of them had businesses and they funneled all the cash from their businesses into trading and then multiplied their wealth using trading. And then it sort of sat and blew my mind and goes I'm sort of putting the cart before the horse here. I know how to multiply the money, but I have no money to multiply.
So I need to go find a business that I'm working well with and doing that there to really to move on, and just before I came across Accelerator, I watched ... I don't know if you've ever seen it, the Front Current interview with Grant Cardone. He basically, it's the confessions of an entrepreneur one. And he basically, Grant Cardone asked him, the first thing he asked him is, "What's the biggest mistake you ever made in your business and in your life?" And he goes, "That when I learned all the skills of direct response, that I didn't take it to proper businesses. I went into make money from home niche."
And that's something that I've noticed as well, that when I was running Facebook ads for myself in network marketing, that skill is like a commodity inside network marketing. Everyone knows how to run Facebook ads. They all are quite skilled at it, and therefore when you try to make money from it or you try to charge them for your services, you're really getting drilled down to minimal, minimal rates because everyone knows how to do it, and it's tough throughout the industry.
But when you take it to a brick and mortar business or you take it to more normal conventional business where there are 40, 50 year old guys. They know what they're doing. They're really good at their job, but they don't know how to do this new age of technology, that is where the money is because that's where value is and the client values tend to be higher. So in listening to that interview, it just clicked. I was like, I need to get out of network marketing. I need to move into conventional businesses, but 19 years old. I was actually probably 18 at the time. Just turned 19 in that February. 18 years old at the time, not really having a clue how am I actually going to find big businesses to pay me. How do I do this?
So JV Webinar that you did with Ty Lopez, that's how I came across you. I was talking with my friend for a while about how to get into that kind of space, how to do the big business stuff, and seeing the email from Ty and watched the webinar that night, grabbed my laptop, grab a note book. Never grabbed a notebook for a webinar in my life before. I was like, I'm going to take all the notes I can on this, and I'm going to really learn it. And after the webinar, I was like, this is awesome. And then you did the take away at the end, and was like, "Look, you can probably try to figure this out on your own, but if you want to have the keys to the kingdom, if you want to know what you're going to do, get it."
And I didn't really have a big enough income to go buy a $2,500 course. I'd never bought one before, but I bought it at the end of that webinar. It's the only big course I've ever really bought before that, and I'd stick to what your stuff it, so I haven't bought anything crazy like that after it, but that was the first time I came across you, and within that hour or two, I'd bought the webinar. From email to webinar, I'd bought completely and was sold on the whole thing.
Sam Ovens: And what was it that really stood out to you and appealed to you?
Chris Wills: I think it was the interview that I was searching for that. You know, it was a solution to a problem in its finest. I was like, I want to move. Everything was aligning towards you've got the skills that you could get clients, but you need to find how to get these proper businesses and become an actual consultant. And while watching the interviews and different stuff and hearing different things all pointing towards that and also knowing that I need to get a business, it all kind of lined up towards me needing something.
And I was doing a lot of network marketing gig, and we were making a little bit with it. A couple of hundred again a month. Nothing big. We never really got a chance to get big traction with it because a lot of them are based on small client values. Like one that we went for a while, the basic level was you'd get paid $7.50 a month per person. Like $7.50, and that's ridiculous. You need 1,000 people to make a decent income, and with new incentives you can get $1,000, $2,000 clients, I was like this is more in my street. This is more where I want to be, and it just all resonated with me extremely well, and the way you'd laid it out very clearly, very concisely in the webinar, "This is everything you need to do," was very, very good, and that's what sort of pulled me towards I need to pull the trigger on this. I need to get closer to Sam's help with this and move forward.
Sam Ovens: Cool. And then so you got into Accelerator and tell me then what happened.
Chris Wills: On the webinar I'd picked my niche. I've always wanted to work in finance. That what I wanted to study at uni. Didn't get the grades for that there. Then [inaudible 00:07:38] ones that were here, so didn't end up studying that at all, but that's what I've always wanted to work and always wanted to work in finance. That's been my goal, 100%. So I knew my niche immediately from before I even got in the course. I was like, I've got this. And from then on it was just how do I learn? How do I actually get in front of these people? So first thing we did was go through all the notes, researched everything I could about it, and test as many different ways to get in front of people as possible.
Sam Ovens: Cool. And why finance?
Chris Wills: I've always loved finance. I used to watch documentaries of the investment bankers back in the early 2000s. I just be 10, 11 watching some of the banking documentaries about the investment bankers back before the crash right before that there, and even after that and all of that was just super interesting and that, because that's what I really wanted to get into was investment banking originally and advisoring.
Sam Ovens: What drew you to investment banking?
Chris Wills: I think originally it was a money thing when I was young. I think genuinely probably it was like this is where the big bucks are at, and it's just interesting. It was just something from when I was young, and it's so many years ago I don't know what first drew me to it, but I think as well as that there nearly was an allure or an infamy to it or something about it that just everyone kind of respected that or didn't respect it in a sense because it was always on the news. It was just something that seemed like such a good thing to get into that wasn't your typical doctor or lawyer that, you know.
Sam Ovens: Got it. So you picked you niche, and you knew it was going to be something to do with finance. You're in Accelerator. Tell me what happened there. Did you start doing the work. Did you start going out trying to get clients? What happened?
Chris Wills: Yeah. So I bought it and then I didn't do very much with it for about three weeks because I had exams to finish, but, right, I'll get these out of the way. I've got the whole summer, I'll just hammer away on it then. So I got into it there. Went through all of it, learned as much as I could, and then tried to just go out and get clients and did do quite a bit of outreach. With quite ... I wouldn't say minimal success. I did get people interested, but I was just such green. I didn't have a clue what I was doing, even though I had a clue what I was doing, I was so uncomfortable on the phone. I had no clue how to talk to these guys.
I'm an 18 year old, 19-year-old kid from Ireland trying to talk to investment bankers or financial advisors, wealth managers from United States, UK, and all that there. And I didn't have a full 100% knowledge of the industry. I think I really learned that when I got on the phone, so I blew my first 10, 15 strategy session that I got over a nine-month period. I just didn't have a notion what I was truly doing in the industry, and when I compare it to what I know now when I get on a call and they say, "I'm not sure if you've ever heard about this." I've heard about it. I know a lot about the industry now, which if someone said something to be back on a call then, I wouldn't have had a clue. Whenever I ... what is it?
By now I already know most of the things they're going to come out with, and I get people that try to explain things how they're different and that. "Yeah, I kind of know what you're on about. Yeah. I already know that." And now, that's all the knowledge gathering and getting into my market and speaking to them was the best way to gather that knowledge.
Sam Ovens: So you said you did 15 strategy sessions in about nine months.
Chris Wills: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: That's like 1.7 a month. [crosstalk 00:10:58] What else were you doing with your time?
Chris Wills: I still was doing the course. I still was hard at studying business, so I would have done 50-
Sam Ovens: So you were still at university.
Chris Wills: Still studying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sam Ovens: Okay. I got you.
Chris Wills: Still there. I still stayed there. I was going a two-year course to get a Level Five, which is the level below a degree, and, yeah, I was still hitting it up every night. I was hitting people. Getting a lot of 15-minute chats, but I felt like I was getting dominated on those 15-minute chats. Like feature brain, the whole thing. I just didn't have at that point a proper part of the conversation that I do now.
Sam Ovens: And then-
Chris Wills: I got a [inaudible 00:11:32].
Sam Ovens: So then what happened after that?
Chris Wills: I kept doing it. I tried cold calling. I tried the [inaudible 00:11:40]. I tried cold calling, a load of LinkedIn messages, and then I think it got fast forward to say January the next year, and I nearly closed a group client or two or that there. Nearly got close over the line, but I think I was going for your professional package, like your $3,500 package because in my head I was like, I'll go for the bigger one. That makes for sense, and that was stupidity. That was pure and utter stupidity. Now I look back on several different occasions where guys were interested in buying, and I probably could have got them across the line and bought, if I went for the $2,000 a month package, or even maybe $1,000 a month up front, and that's something that maybe an ego or arrogance thing minorly, not a major one at all, I did to the value I could get in the results.
But just going in smaller and getting someone across the line and actually creating that sort of "I done this" in my own brain, quicker would have done that because I knew across-
Sam Ovens: What were you trying to sell them?
Chris Wills: DM. [crosstalk 00:12:34]
Sam Ovens: Digital marketing.
Chris Wills: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: Did you research the niche to see if this is what they want, this is what they need?
Chris Wills: Yeah. 100% researched a lot of it. They did act ... I think it was just I didn't have enough results. I probably wasn't 100% green on the phone if I went for a smaller thing I think I could have got it across the line in that case, and that was more ... the problem is there. 100%, and I get it in every single phone call. The problem is there.
Sam Ovens: Describe the problem. Describe first of all the niche. What is the niche.
Chris Wills: The niche is helping financial advisors and wealth managers to grow their businesses by showing them how to employ marketing strategies to get consultations.
Sam Ovens: Got it.
Chris Wills: That's what it is. [inaudible 00:13:13]
Sam Ovens: And then what's their problem?
Chris Wills: Problem is that they cannot get a solid few leads in their door, and that they a lot of referrals. A lot of them led their businesses on referrals. They had referrals. There are not enough flow over referrals, and that's kind of it, and that's their only source and then ... you talk about it in the webinar originally, the up and down months. The start to get up and down months and it's getting away from that there and take control of their own business.
Sam Ovens: Got it, and so you started trying to pitch these guys. You got some no's and everything, and then tell us about your first client. How did that happen?
Chris Wills: Yeah, sure. So I got ... Accelerator 2.0 came out. Went through my whole niche research again and really dialed it down. I spent five or 10 times more time than I did the last time that I did it because I had all this market data, go back and actually relay and sort of sit back and go, I know a lot more of the industry now. [inaudible 00:14:07] update my client hypothesis, my avatar, all of that there, and make it so much more detailed.
So from that moment on when I started going back out into them market and that and going and getting clients for direct outreach, I got a lot more traction, and I was sending out stuff. A guy came to me, had a 15-minute chat. Booked a strategy session for that Friday, and he wanted to wait until June. With the incentive basis he wanted to wait until June, so I think I signed him up on the first of May. He wanted to wait to the first of June because he was about to close two big clients, and I was like, "That's lost." And then I thought to myself, do I want to get one across the line. I want to actually get a client. This guy is a serious buyer. He's a good fit. He knows what he's doing.
I sent him and email saying, "Look, man. I'll drop the setup fee to $1,000 and then $2,000 from the first of June onwards if you sign up tonight. Send me an email back." Sent me an email back, rung me on a Saturday, paid the fee, and we got going.
Sam Ovens: Right. So how did that feel?
Chris Wills: Do you know what? I don't think it felt as good as what your first client felt. I think it was such a long time coming for me that it was like, I need to get back to work and get more. It was good, and then it was like, I need to do more of this.
Sam Ovens: Got it.
Chris Wills: Three weeks later, next client came in.
Sam Ovens: How did you get that client?
Chris Wills: Same process, and it was a very similar process to what I was doing for the nine months before, which is the craziest thing that blows my mind about it, but I think it was just the consistency and the compound effect of things.
Sam Ovens: What was that process?
Chris Wills: LinkedIn. I did a ton of LinkedIn outreach. [crosstalk 00:15:38]
Sam Ovens: How does that work?
Chris Wills: I would add people in my niche, then I would message them, probably a 15-minute chat conversation, and I found that to be the most effective thing. Now, it requires volume to make it work, so there was times whenever those nine or 12 months when I was originally ... I had no LinkedIn connections. I had nothing. I didn't even have a LinkedIn account. I had no need for LinkedIn account. No one my age, unless they're working with that, even uses LinkedIn. So I started late in this class coming from scratch and starting building and adding advisors, and eventually it got to really start growing, and I had five or six thousand advisors by the end when I stopped outreaching. I had a good network of people.
So some people that I'd added ages before and I'd messaged them. I'd go through ... I would start off sometimes with a new message and go from top to bottom again on my list. And I would find the people I added six or seven months ago that did not respond before, responded. Those were the ones that actually bought in the end. They came back to me and they bought.
So I think it is as well as that, it's just repeating it. If you don't hit someone for three to six months, they'll forget about you and you go back and do it again, and that's a great thing to do at times on LinkedIn and email and that because the likelihood is that they'll not remember you. So if they don't remember you, why not just hit them again? [crosstalk 00:16:50]
Sam Ovens: So you would to onto LinkedIn, and tell me how you would search for ... I'm just trying to get this explained properly so that other people can do this. What would you search for?
Chris Wills: Literally go on for owners of financial advisory firms. I'd find every name that they could be under the sun for my niche, so you've got registered investment advisory, you've got wealth managers, you've got financial advisors, financial planners, certified financial planners, you've got I think there's 200 designations that people give themselves. They all do the same thing effectively, but there's 200 different designations.
Sam Ovens: It's like coach, consultant. Same thing.
Chris Wills: Exactly. It's the same thing. Yeah. Exactly the same thing, and they all call themselves different things, but they're all doing the same thing to get their clients the same result, so search for all those there, and then you'll find as well as that industry, and a good thing for most people in most business industries is don't just go owner. Principal, vice president, president, partner. All of these different things they'll call themselves. They can still be the decision maker. A lot of them for presidents and principals. I find principal's a major one people call themselves, and it's just the same thing. They own the business.
But you're not going to find them on your other searches, so hit them guys up, too. It's a great way to find even more people, and just repeat that process. Owner, vice president, president, principal, and just insert whatever the name you want to call them is, and keep doing that with-
Sam Ovens: So you found all the different words used to describe the industry and then all the different words described to you as the owner-
Chris Wills: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: And you used every combination of all of them.
Chris Wills: Yep. And then started adding as many as I could.
Sam Ovens: And you just go add as connection?
Chris Wills: Yeah. There was a while in the LinkedIn thing when they were moving from the latest version to the newest one, and it didn't stop you from connecting with people whatsoever, so that was a time when I just smashed the whole thing and added as many as I could, and you'll find that a lot of people will give up on LinkedIn very early because second and third connections ... So if you're a third connection, people are less likely to add you because you're not connected to anyone they know, so you've got to really put the legwork in because as soon as you start getting a lot of connections, you'll find that more people are connected to them, and when you're connected to someone they're connected with, they will add you more frequently.
Because it's sort of a sense of trust, so you've got to sort of build it. I had no one in my niche, so I had to build a referred connections. They're like, "Well, who is this guy? I don't want to add you. Who are you?" But eventually you get that you have second connections and they'll start adding you because you know other people.
Sam Ovens: And what did your ... were you just adding them in Ireland? Tell us how you were doing this geographically.
Chris Wills: American. Mainly America.
Sam Ovens: And what made you choose America and not anywhere else?
Chris Wills: Huge industry. Huge. It's the biggest financial industry in the world. Same with most industries, realistically. UK's pretty big. Canada's quite big as well, but they're regulated differently and they've got a few bigger bodies and that there that work on them, so there's more regulatory things in there. You can still make it work. I added one or two from Canada that I spoke with. UK's good as well, but with the way the pension system and that works in the UK, it's a different sale. So usually people have more liquid assets under their own control inside America and Canada.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And then tell me how ... What did your LinkedIn profile say when you were adding these people? How did you describe yourself?
Chris Wills: Yeah. So I had my "I help blank to blank by blank" as my tag line.
Sam Ovens: And what was that?
Chris Wills: I help financial advisor to generate more clients using online marketing, it was at the time when I was in the done for you were doing it done for them, and that was purely Adam to get people interested in what I do. How do you do that?
Sam Ovens: And when you were adding them as connections, did you put any sort of custom message in there, or just Adam?
Chris Wills: For the majority of the time, I didn't do that. I ended up starting doing that when it got back to the taking control of things. I would add a custom message like, "Hey, I think it would be great if we connected. You seem to be in the same industry and I know some of the people that you're with or I see we're connected with the same people." When you have second connections you can do that, and that's what we did and just send that to them there.
I would do some posts on LinkedIn as well, like value posts. I did blog posts. I'd hit them on LinkedIn, and I had one or two guys come from LinkedIn posts.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And then how many ... back then when you were doing all this, how was your day structured? How many hours would you spend doing this and that and so on?
Chris Wills: I would do 30, 40 LinkedIn messages a day minimum, so I would connect with as many people as possible. I would message all the ones I connected with in the past 24 hours, and I would repeat that seven days a week.
Sam Ovens: How long did that take you per day?
Chris Wills: An hour or two a day at most, and then I'd have the calls. If I got any 50-minute chats, I'd have them as well.
Sam Ovens: Got it. So then tell us, if you connected with someone, what would you message them? What did that message look like?
Chris Wills: The direct outreach template. That was the one I found to be the most effective.
Sam Ovens: And what did that say, just for people who aren't familiar with it?
Chris Wills: It was the, "Hey, their name. I see you're working in the advisory industry. I've got some awesome things that I'd love to show you." And then we would set up a 15-minute chat. I don't remember the exact thing off the top of my head because I haven't used it in while, but yeah, that's basically was the fundamentals of the message.
Sam Ovens: And then what happened from there?
Chris Wills: 50-minute chat was usually booked, and then I had-
Sam Ovens: Would they respond back and say like-
Chris Wills: Yeah. I would get a lot of people respond back to me.
Sam Ovens: What did they typically say?
Chris Wills: A lot of them would give me a time. The odd person would like, "What do you do first?" Some people would do, and then I would take the ones and start to explain to them a little bit about what I do, but, look, say, "Realistically we need a little chat to see if you're even a fit for what I do." And then try and do it with chat from there and try and do it.
Sometimes if I ran a list, I'd keep a Word document or an A4 page of all the people that had responded by I hadn't yet got booked the calls and try to close them into calls, because you'll find that you're going to find at LinkedIn especially, but a lot of people who will check LinkedIn the odd time. Be like, "Yeah, sure. I'd love a call." And you reply to get a time booked. Very difficult to get hold of them, so you've got to keep on top of some of the people that are replaying, try and get that sort of sorted.
Sam Ovens: Got it, so just so I can get this understanding clear, you chose the niche and then financial advisors, wealth managers, because you're interested in it.
Chris Wills: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: You talked to them. You found out their problem was getting clients and having consistently flow because they were using referrals and traditional methods.
Chris Wills: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: So you thought I can come in here and help these people solve this problem through digital marketing and stuff, which you learned a little bit about from affiliates and from Accelerator program and all of that.
Chris Wills: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: And then you started adding them ... You created a LinkedIn profile, you said, "I help financial advisors to get clients with digital marketing." Then you would add all of these people as connections, so building up that network, and then if they accepted it, you'd message them saying, "Hey, I've got some awesome stuff to show you. Let me know if you're interested." They'd message you back, ask you a few questions. You'd reply back to that, and then you'd get them on a 15-minute call.
Chris Wills: Yeah. 100%.
Sam Ovens: And then tell us what happens on that call.
Chris Wills: Usually I just ask a little bit about their business, see where they're at, see what they're doing. If they're not doing online market stuff at the minute or how is that going? A lot of them are doing seminar stuff like that there, or they're just going on referrals. A lot of these guys are just doing referrals, so you come in a little bit and you say, "Look, well I do this. Would you be interested in having a strategy session to see if we could be a good fit to work together and could actually make something happen?" [crosstalk 00:24:30]
Sam Ovens: And what was the biggest things you've learned after doing all these 15-minute calls?
Chris Wills: A lot of them need clients, but as well as that, some of them are quite skeptical of online. I found there's quite a decent bit of skepticism of online marketing in the industry, so that is nearly a battle hurdle to come over. I still hear people on the phone that are skeptical of digital marketing. "Well, I've never heard of anyone make it work, so how does it work? It can't possibly work." And it's a very random thing for them to say because "Hey, well I have this guy that runs seminars and he's ran them for 20 years and they work great, so why should I do anything else?" So that comes into it a little bit as well.
It's one of the biggest objections. Once you get results, they're quite skeptical I think of people without results, so when I started reiterating myself after 2.0, I was just like, I need to get someone across the line and get results.
Sam Ovens: Got it.
Chris Wills: And as soon as I did that there, it made it 10 times easier for anything else, but until you have that, this industry is quite a weird one to crack because I got sent a message the other day from a prospect who said, "Look." He was some SEC case, a guy who's now trying to promote helping financial advice, like a book deal to a series of seminars. And he's charging 40,000 up front. So there's a few charlatans and quite dodgy [inaudible 00:25:43] in the marketplace as well, so you have a lot to come up against in that kind of thing as well.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And then from the 15-minute chat, would you typically close someone, or they would say they're not interested? Was that kind of the end of the process before you got a client?
Chris Wills: Strategy session was next, so I'd book it forward to a strategy session or they weren't interested. They'd qualify themselves out as such. "But only do this or that there," or they'd go forward with a strategy session.
Sam Ovens: And how would you know whether they qualify to go forward with a strategy session?
Chris Wills: Revenue was a decent thing for it because for done for you service fees guys, you're not going to get the cheapest leads. It's not going to be cheap to market with because you are trying to buy big cases and big clients. It's not just car dealerships. It's not a high-volume lead quantity. They are more expensive things, so you've got to make sure they have a bit of a revenue goal for this year. Courses and that are easier or different because it's not a recurring thing, but an advisor, they need to be a decent-size firm to really make sense of the services, I'd find.
Sam Ovens: What size did you find?
Chris Wills: Most of my retainer clients were $500,000, million dollar year about. I found that usually when that got into that ... not even the revenue. It's like the switch in their mind from I'm a self proprietor, I'm a self-employed guy, because a lot of them technically would be, would fall under that and don't want to invest heavily in marketing to I'm a business. When they've made that mental distinction, they hire employees or they spend big on marketing already, then usually they're ready to spend on it. They're a better fit because they know that they have to do that, but when they're still stuck in that kind of one man band, one man show where they want to keep it as cheap as possible and rely on referrals, some of them it's hard to bring into the retainer model.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And then how did you transition that over to the strategy session?
Chris Wills: Usually I would say, "Look." They would ask a little bit of what I do. I would explain a little bit about that then. I would say, "We can get into it more in a strategy session," usually was sort of the case and get them into more of a strategy session, how it looks for your business, and I'll do some work on figuring out how best we can do it for you was a good way to get them onto it as well. Because we're all in different areas. They're all in ... Some of them are in huge metropolitan areas with four or five million people around them. Some of them are in small areas, so the costings and the scale you can actually achieve is massively different. Some of the guys, so I would sort of do it with that, they will discuss, we'll get really into your business and figure out your ideal client.
Because in a 15, 20-minute chat, you don't have enough time to really learn entirely what their business is structure and what they're trying to achieve.
Sam Ovens: Got it. So you would schedule the strategy session with them.
Chris Wills: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Sam Ovens: And how far out typically was that from the 15-minute chat?
Chris Wills: I would try to keep it as soon as possible after.
Sam Ovens: What would you say on average from all them that you've done? What time window would that be?
Chris Wills: Under a week. That week or under sort of five-day time frame. I'd try to keep it as tight as possible. With ads, I try to keep it under three to four days, but yeah.
Sam Ovens: That's what we find. Four days max.
Chris Wills: I find when you kept it very far out, it never really worked out.
Sam Ovens: What did you have for lunch five days ago?
Chris Wills: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: No one knows.
Chris Wills: They don't know. They don't respond to you very well. They go, "Oh, I don't remember that there" stuff, and you're kind of thinking, "Well, this isn't very good for us here." I usually find if they dropped off for a couple of weeks and wanted to call in a couple of weeks, you probably weren't going to get them.
Sam Ovens: So then you get them on the strategy session. Now what's different on the strategy session? How does that go?
Chris Wills: It usually worked out a lot more about their business in depth and what they've tried in the past [inaudible 00:29:21] a lot more about what they're currently spending. Try to look for areas of what they're spending and how they're spending in their marketing and what's working and what's not working, because a lot of businesses, I'm sure they do marketing and in their head it works, but actually it doesn't really create the kind of revenue they need, or the cost per client is way over the roof because they're not actually tracking it.
They know, "I spend $10,000 here and it makes me $25,000, or it makes me $15,000," but they're not looking at their customer cost is like $4,000. And if they could drop their customer cost to $2,000 then their business is going to be so much more effective and they could spend far more, or even spend less.
Sam Ovens: What's a customer cost?
Chris Wills: The cost per acquisition.
Sam Ovens: Cost per acquisition. Got it. Then on the strategy sessions that you would do with these guys, what would you say is the most powerful thing you learned to use on those?
Chris Wills: Silence was always a good one. Always reiterating their pain, so I'd sort of every time-
Sam Ovens: Wait a sec. Let's explain silence first.
Chris Wills: Yeah. Silence, just letting them me ask me first questions. Although a lot of them tend to sort of go, "Are you there?" I'm like, "Yeah, I'm there." So I just say, "Yeah, I'm there." They'll ask you the question. So it's a good way to keep them pulling from you because obviously in that second half of the strategy session you want to let them be pulling the information from you, so you sort of let's stay silent, let them dwell on their pain a little bit, and then I try to reiterate their pain as well, I find works very well as well.
So if they say, "Look, my biggest problem is I'm not getting enough customers and I'm trying to do this but it's not working," let them say their whole speil. Let them say what they're trying to say, and just come back to them sort of say, "So it sounds like you've tried to get customers but you're not getting them, and you've tried this, this, and this, but it's just not working. Is that about right?" And they'll say, "Yeah, yeah, that's about right. Yeah." And it sort of lets it reiterate them and solidifies it in their head that that's, "Yeah, I have the problem."
And then when you bring it back, I find it helps sort of ... It means it feels like you're not really trying to push them hard for the pain, but you're building it up anyway because you're spending your time on each statement they're making. I don't know if that's the perfect way to do it, but it seems to have done okay.
Sam Ovens: How's it been going? Tell us now how many clients do you have? Fast forward to now. We're at almost 25k a month. How does the business look?
Chris Wills: The business has actually transitioned massively since the start of the year. So I maxed out a like seven to eight clients doing digital marketing. Couldn't really push it much higher because I found that your time is very ...
Sam Ovens: So you said seven to eight.
Chris Wills: I think it was eight at the max.
Sam Ovens: Got it.
Chris Wills: I think it was eight at max. It was about $15,000 a month, 12, 15,000 a month revenue.
Sam Ovens: And what happened there? Why did you max out?
Chris Wills: Time gets very split up I find. You're trying to do strategy sessions with new clients. You're trying to do calls with them because compliance is a huge thing in this industry. If you want to get clients results extreme fast, this might not be the right place for you to go because you get drawn out massively with compliance, and that's something most people don't talk about, and you don't want to mess with compliance because it's not ... I know a company that got a quarter million dollar case sent against them, like just a fine within three weeks.
So it's not something you want to play around with. Everything needs to be complied, and I had a client I worked with for four or five months, and we still only just about got it through compliance at the end of that there because the department was stupidly tight on things. So if you want to come in and get a client and results very, very fast, it can be quite a tight thing to do with marketing.
So that kind of was that you go back and forth on revisions. You're revising a lot of stuff, and you're having conversations with compliance teams going back and forth on pages making changes, so it's not as simple as setting up a page that converts, setting up some adverts and going live. So it is a more complicated thing do to. So that's why-
Sam Ovens: So you maxed out at seven to eight, and then how did you deal with that? How did you break past that?
Chris Wills: Course. Built a course. Started in January. I find that because ... I sort of was selling marketing hard in January to try and grow it and was going to hire people, and I literally just sat down and I was like, hold on here. Last-minute marketing, I had 40 calls from advisors that were like 5 to 10 thousand dollars a month, and I couldn't do much with them. I'm sure a lot of people find that they get a lot of businesses that are smaller than what really could [inaudible 00:34:01] a $2,000, $2,500 a month retainer plus ad cost. That could eat into most of their business revenue, so I sat down and was like, I could build a course showing them how to do this, and those 40 calls, I'm pretty sure there's buyers in that 40 calls because people ask me is there any way you can show me this or do I have to pay a retainer?
And I sort of sat there, and was like, right, hold on here. That seems like ... because I'm going to be throwing away tons of calls from people who just could buy and could increase the profitability of my ads. Why would I do that? And it seemed ... I never actually intended ever to get into "coaching" like a course, that was something that just never ever made sense to me until I did it. And then I had a call about a week and a half after when I signed up my first guy, two days after I bought Up Level. Signed up the first guy into the program. Had him built it. Had to build out that weekend because stupidly I didn't say, "Let's start in a week." I said, "Let's start on Monday," and I sold him on Friday.
So I had a crazy weekend trying to build that week one. Build that week one, got him through it. He was a brand new advisor. He built a business internationally. Finished out there, came back to retire in the United States, decided he hated golf, and he wanted to start advising. So he got into insurance advising and financial advisory. Two weeks in, got him a client. He loved the program. He loved what we were doing, and at that moment on, like I said, it's a high you get from it. Like, that's awesome. It was good.
Sam Ovens: Let's go back to the part where you're maxed out doing done for you. You realize that the only way to get past that is through online courses.
Chris Wills: Sure.
Sam Ovens: How did you know what was going to be in the course? How did you know that the market would want it and would buy it?
Chris Wills: Sure. Well, from what you were sort of saying, it's another way of delivering the material, and because it was just another way of them doing it, so they could do it themselves, save the retainer and they could do most themselves anyway because it was quite an involved process I find for them. Because they had to go back to compliance departments and revise stuff anyway. A lot of them were putting effort and hours in, so it nearly made sense for don't pay me as such. Do it yourself and buy the course.
Sam Ovens: Got it. So you thought I will just deliver the same stuff I'm doing for them myself manually, but through a course.
Chris Wills: Yeah. I added a few different things in that I knew I could help them with because I had found other areas that I probably could help them with in their business during the retainer clients to help them get clients, other things that they can employ in their business that were well outside the scope of my work.
Sam Ovens: What's an example of one of those?
Chris Wills: The LinkedIn stuff. So I showed some of how to do the LinkedIn things. I have a guy getting three or four meetings a week with LinkedIn himself. And it's stuff that I've used to get great success and to close clients that are with me ... I have a client that's still with me for now a year, over a year. So I start with my first client is still with me, and I got them from LinkedIn. They paid me well over $25,000, $30,000 now. And I thought I'll show my advisors how to do this sort of stuff and then they can use that money to go and grab enough money, enough cash to go invest in ads.
Sam Ovens: Got it. So you're teaching them some organic methods as well as some paid.
Chris Wills: Yeah. 100% yeah.
Sam Ovens: So then you do the strategy session. You sell your first guy into this course. Obviously the course doesn't exist yet, then you've got a weekend to build it. You build it, and then how many more people have you sold into the course since that first one?
Chris Wills: So I had major trouble getting my ads go properly. I couldn't get them booking calls for some reason just in January or February my ads were quite horrible for some reason. Got them finally fixed. Kept reiterating and starting again. Got them fixed. Within the two weeks of getting them fixed mid-February, I signed on five people onto the course.
Sam Ovens: And how much are you selling the course for?
Chris Wills: $3,800 at the minute. One off.
Sam Ovens: How did you come up with that price?
Chris Wills: From Up Level.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And then you said your ads were not working in Jan, Feb, and now they are. What was it about them? What was wrong with them?
Chris Wills: Honestly, it just seemed some of them weren't tight. Some of the stuff I was doing at the start of January is what's working now, but when you look at the DNA strand of the ad sets, it's almost identical, but yet they're working extremely well. It just seemed that for a while I couldn't get impressions to take on ads, and other stuff. One of my ad accounts just stopped getting impressions on ads. 100. Just completely stopped getting impressions for what I can't understand why.
If I turned on old ad sets, fine. If I started new ad sets, not a chance, so KPIs were say off. CPMs were way through the roof for me for a while. Like $80, $90. And then eventually it just settled down and started working, but what I did was I ran it for four or five days. I would cull it, keep what was working, and then if it wasn't working, I'd cull it and just start again. The problem for January and February, I was reiterating that process continually, which mean my ad costs a lot higher than it should have been to get a client or two.
Sam Ovens: So now you're selling anyone new into your done for you services, or just strictly course?
Chris Wills: Strictly course. I have a strategy session for an advisor on Friday who I think he's a $600,000 a month business already and he wants to go to $900,000 a month, and I don't know if the course will be a great fit for him because of the way we can run the DM, and I have a guy who could run it with me and do the DM for me. I'll probably just make an offer and say, "Look, it's $3,500 a month if you want the done for you." If he takes it, cool. I'll outsource the entire thing, and if he doesn't take it, I'm okay. My main focus is the course.
Sam Ovens: Got it. What would you say has been the most transformational part of this whole process? Think back to when you were 18, 19 broke or making 500 bucks a month with this affiliate stuff, to now where you're at $25,000 a month. What was the main turning point in that story?
Chris Wills: Mindset was majorly transformational. One video I think was the most transformational all of them was the compound effect. That was the most trans ... because when you watched it, it blew my freaking mind. 100% blew my mind.
Sam Ovens: Why?
Chris Wills: Just the fact that everything you've done to get where you're going or what you're doing is because of things you've done in the past, and when I look at the stuff I did in LinkedIn, so whenever I ran campaigns in August on LinkedIn and that, I hit everyone on my list. I got two or three clients and made about $35,000, $40,000 a year add onto my income. That was all from people who joined my LinkedIn list over the past 18 months. So I never would have got that result without having put in the effort back then. So-
Sam Ovens: So you were too short sighted before.
Chris Wills: Prior, when I was younger, yeah. 100%. Yeah. Realized after that that it really was, and I think the major thing for me was sticking to my niche. Whatever that niche is, just stick to it. I'm sure a lot of people will watch these interviews and want to change your niche to where the grass is greener, and it's kind of like the shiny ball syndrome. But I think that's probably the biggest mistake a lot of them can make is changing niche. Because there's definitely people in the group that have changed your niche.
It took me 11 months to get a client. There's probably people that are going to change their niche five or six times in that timeframe because it just didn't work. But if you're starting a new industry and you've got no experience there before and you've never done it, it can sometime maybe take a bit of time to get the boulder moving. You're moving a boulder from nothing. Once you've got momentum, as I said, every month since I got momentum and got that first client, I've got new clients. But what changed? It's just momentum, and I think if you don't let yourself get enough time to get the momentum, you're going to do yourself a massive disservice later on in the course.
Sam Ovens: Got it. I saw in the Facebook group, maybe it was last year, that you post this thing and you said ... you did a post and it was Chris 2.0.
Chris Wills: Yes. I do remember that. Yeah. Definitely.
Sam Ovens: Explain that. What is that?
Chris Wills: Dude, it was just really trying to figure out how am I going to iterate and evolve myself into someone that gets the results that I'm trying to get. Just how can I actually take ... the biggest thing was consistency, being consistent in what I do every day. If I want to do something, I need to do it every day. So every morning I get up, I run my ads. I check them. I do that every morning with the mindset. I'll watch a bit of the training. I'm make sure that everything I'm doing is consistent. Every night I come in, maybe the weekend on night. I don't drink anymore whatsoever, but some nights I'll go out with my friends for a bit maybe on a Saturday night, and I'll come home at half one in the morning and I'm shattered. And I'll still do the mindset.
And if I don't do the mindset, if I say, "I'll just go to bed. It's fine." My brain's like, "No. You cannot miss this. You have to do it." And it forces me to do it. It's become such an ingrained habit now that I can't not do it, no matter what time I'm coming to bed at, if there's a way somewhere, a conference or a concert or anything like that there, I come in and I have to do it. I can't not do it. [crosstalk 00:43:09].
Sam Ovens: What's different about you now compared to you back then? Because you now, I'm guessing this is Chris 2.0. Explain the difference between them.
Chris Wills: On the outside interestingly, probably not ridiculous differences. So I still live lifestyle-wise exactly the same as I did before, so it's like an entirely internal change so far. The high [inaudible 00:43:35] I haven't bought anything flashy from the business. I haven't done anything like that there whatsoever. I'm going to buy myself a new MacBook shortly because my mine's seven years old, and I didn't realize this and now it needs to go. But I've just focused on ... I know where I want to get to. I know how I'm going to get there. My goal with the Up Level, $100,000 a month and I have complete certainly I'm going to get there.
So I'm much more certain I know I'm going to reach my goals, which is the first thing. I'm more consistent, so I go to the gym a lot now. I've had an injured shoulder for years with nerve pain up in the shoulder area as well with that, and I've been at physio consistently getting that better, so just consistently trying to improve myself in each area, and I find as my shoulder improves, my fitness improves. My business improves as well.
Sam Ovens: Got it.
Chris Wills: [inaudible 00:44:21] If I go the gym every week, I found that when I go to the gym my life gets better. If I get in better shape, my life gets better, and that's translated into my business gets better, so it's just trying to pull consistency from all areas.
Sam Ovens: Got it. You've been in Accelerator for a while now, and you've moved into the Up Level program, too. From people in Accelerator, I'm sure you've seen a lot of what they post and everything. What would your main number-one piece of advice be to them?
Chris Wills: First of all, I think revenue targets when you're starting out, it's a very bad idea. I think that I've got away ... the start of the year was me getting entirely away from revenue targets completely. I had my goals obviously, but my only goal was like 10 strategy sessions a week from ads. That was it. And I get that every week now, and my goal is 25 strategy sessions a week from ads because I know that by getting the strategy sessions, I'll get my revenue goals.
So like if you've got a goal for a Ferrari, a Porsche, the house, whatever, great. Figure out how much it's going to cost, and then go back to what revenue do I need in my business to makes sense of this purchase. And then go back to what do I need to do ... how many strategy sessions do I need to get, and then if you're going back from that again into direct outreach, go back further again, and you talk about that a lot in the course with the reverse engineering. But I found that when I got away from trying to focus on I want to get free clients.
I think when people go to "I want to get" or "I need to get free clients," something like that, it's harder for them to get and materialize that goal.
Sam Ovens: So you put your focus on the actions, not the outcomes.
Chris Wills: Yeah. Leading indicators. Strategy sessions are my leading indicators. I know if I get 10 a week, I'm going to get clients. So because I think the problem is we're trying to get clients as well, you want every strategy session to be a client. You kind of think ... and it's best when you've got lower volume of strategy session, I think that people want to go, "Okay, I need to get this. This needs to go in a client." I see people doing it that I speak to sometimes, that they'll go, "I need to get this. This guy's going to be a client. He's going to pay me." And I thought like that sometimes on strategy sessions, and they think, I had two strategy sessions one day. And there's one girl who signed up and bought the course. And I sort of looked at her survey and was like, ah, she's not going to be a brilliant fit for this, but she's not a bad fit. Other guy about four hours later, I was like, this guy looks like a buyer, right? Came on the calls, she bought. He was a horrible person to talk to.
So you can't have any preconceived notions of people before you get on the phone with them and see what they're like as well. So you need to have volume. Volume is key, but as well as that, it's focusing on the revenue generation activities. 100% figure out how to get the amount of calls you need and everything else will fall in line.
Sam Ovens: Because when you don't have many calls, you get desperate.
Chris Wills: Yeah. I think partially what happened with me as well is not enough volume. I think there just wasn't enough volume for me to really get in my swing. I'm getting more in my swing now, and I know when me and Nick spoke about it, I'll get more into my swing when I've got 25 a week because I don't care if you buy. If you're not a good fit and you don't want to buy, then sure. Go away. That's cool. There's about 24 more of you the rest of the week.
And it allows you to become of a consultative approach because you're not forcing yourself to get a sale. There's no desperation there. I had a guy ... I think we spoke about it on the QA call, who wanted to have the conversation. Told me he'd ring me back tomorrow. "I want to go ahead with this. Ring me back tomorrow and let's have a chat about it." And I remember I watched the video again because I find some people don't watch the entire video, but they'll call anyway, which is a second main thing, which is why I want to move to just-in-time webinar.
He told me that there, and emailed me the next morning and said, "I can't take the call, and I'm on my way to Phoenix for a seminar. I know you want a sale from me, so talk to me when you're back." And I just said, "No, I don't want a sale from you. If you can't remember that you're going to a seminar in Phoenix, that didn't get planned overnight. You knew you were going to that there, so, look, get in touch when you want. It will be the full price."
I just left it that there. He got back to me. Flagged out again, and I haven't responded to him yet. So you just need to get in it. Whereas you violate your own rules, I think, if you don't have enough calls because you need the sale. If I had no revenue or had no more calls, I'd be like, "Oh, God, I need to get this guy. I need to bring him into my [inaudible 00:48:53] to make him a client." But the reality is you don't want him as a client.
Sam Ovens: There's plenty of fish in the sea.
Chris Wills: Millions of them, so you need to just find the ones that are good. That girl I brought on, she was really nervous about buying the course. She went through week one and she rang me saying, "Thank you for making me buy this because I need this in my life." So there's always going to be different people. Some people are just going to love what you do and respect it immensely, and some people are just going to be the worst people you ever worked with. Just don't work with them, I find.
I probably could make more money if I took everyone on, but I don't think I'd enjoy business.
Sam Ovens: You wouldn't.
Chris Wills: No. So it just wouldn't. It doesn't make sense to me.
Sam Ovens: Everyone I've ever regretted signing up ... Well, everyone I ever signed up which was kind of sketchy about always ended up regretting they did.
Chris Wills: Yeah. Part of me in my head was rationalizing that guy. I don't do one-on-ones anymore, so even if he was late, he misses the call, it's his own problem. I nearly rationalized it that way if he doesn't do anything, but then I just knew that you're going to have him down the line. "Six weeks go and I didn't get anything out of this, and I'm not happy." And I'm like, "Well, did you do anything?" But then it's just better not having those things.
I had a client like that who needed what I offered but couldn't really afford what I offered, but she bought it anyway. That was a mistake as well. When you're in DM, don't take clients like that because she range me three days after the ads went live and I'd spent like $150, like "Where are the clients? Where are the leads?" And I was like, "No, no." And we did get our leads, but I think she was so sketchy, I think she had a lot of financial problems in her own life. She was selling her house, all this here, and was telling me this, and I'm like, "I don't need to know this. I should never have signed you up here." And it's a bad business relationship.
You nearly need to not need the marketing but want the marketing if you're doing DM, because you can get off the line fast and rolling, which in the advisory industry, because of compliance, you can't if you deal with those kind of clients who are struggling who need you right now, you're out of the game because it's going to end up being a nightmare for yourself and your own business.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And then how would you, for members of Accelerator, because you've moved from Accelerator to Up Level now into the Up Level consulting program. What's been the main shift that's happened from doing that for you?
Chris Wills: Time leverage. Complete and utter leverage for me now. Don't have to deal with many clients and different formats. I've got the Facebook group and I've got the calls going on. Like I know it's so much more leveraged than what it was in Accelerator so that switch is brilliant for most people to make. Would I make it unless you had revenue? It depends if you want to get clients or not. It's how you want to do your clients. I love the retainer model in the beginning. It was brilliant for me because I saved nearly everything I made, a majority of it, so I have a good kitty and a good war chest for ads now. So I can funnel that into ads and take the one time because I think as well that when you're doing one-time deals and you need $50,000 a year to live on, you're going to be stressed because you need 12, whereas you might only need two clients. So retainer and Accelerator is a brilliant way to get started.
And as you talk about, it's been going from zero to 100. I did zero to about 150 probably. I matched a 150 run rate, so I hit the goal and I hit what you say is where you want to go in Accelerator. Yes, and sure you can go way higher with it if you hire people. That was me alone. I took a decent bit of that money, saved it, and I'm ready to put it into ads hard. So if you're going to go into one-off stuff, watch out that you're going to have to make sure you've got enough volume of calls coming your way, because if I only had the volume I had and only got paid once each time, I don't think I'd have the money I have or the business I had.
So that makes a major thing for me. But, yeah, the leverages is insane. Getting that extra leverage is insane, and it's going to be a game changer because I know that I'm going to take the business to $100,000 a month, and it's going to look no differently. I've got it in place, so I'll finish the course off in the next few weeks, and it's all sales from there, and there's no reason I can't do $100,000 a month because it's the exact same as what I'm doing.
There's no [inaudible 00:53:00] the Q&A calls like a [inaudible 00:53:02], whereas if you try to do that in Accelerator it's a problem. You're going to have a lot of headaches if you talk about it, but the flywheel, the linear model, you're going to end up running yourself possibly into the ground or trying to manage other people and it gets a bit crazy.
Sam Ovens: There's a limit for done for you in 101, which you probably found at seven to eight clients.
Chris Wills: With the compliance stuff and that, they 100% I did. If I had have been in an industry without that, maybe could have got to 12 or 13. [crosstalk 00:53:27]
Sam Ovens: There's always something.
Chris Wills: Always something. It's always going to end up. You might have got that little bit higher without it because you just do it once and you're finished, but you're still going to cap out 100% and it's still going to bite you in the ass in the end. You're going to keep doing it. You can scale it, but eventually it's just going to stop and you're going to have to transition if you want to grow bigger. If you don't want to grow bigger, it may be not for you, but that's the thing I think most people I here want to grow a bigger business and have that leveraged time thing, so I think it's for everyone as long as they're ready to commit and really pull it in because building a course takes a bit of time.
It's not just you're done. You've got to do the work to get it done, but once it's there, you're done. You're getting paid 100 times for something you built once. You build a course once, you get paid 100 times, so I can't fault it as a thing to move into, and I didn't want to move into it. I genuinely never wanted ... you can ask some people I used to talk to and [inaudible 00:54:21] friend of mine. I never wanted to get into that course. Never wanted to do it.
Then I did it, and I loved it. And it's much better, so-
Sam Ovens: People don't want to do it because they feel like it's phony unless they've done it first in the done for you setting and seen that that model gets limited, and then it's like you're forced into a corner, you know what I mean?
Chris Wills: It was a forced thing. I was forced into it effectively, and then I got into it and I'm like, well this is so much better. Like what was I missing? I was missing something here completely and it is so much more scalable, so I think if you're not tight for cash, you're not in survival mode, you're not going to leave that there, jump in, jump up, and move into a course model. If you don't need the cash right now, you don't need a ... I have a client that pays me $2,000 a month and they have done for a year. That's better than the average salary in my country. So if you've got your living expenses covered ... I live super cheap, like ridiculous thing. I spent $500 last month on my personal life. I live super cheap. So if you've got your living expenses covered and a bit of money for ads, I would jump in and get leverage because the sooner you do it, the more you'll get dividends down the road. It's compound.
Sam Ovens: Got it. Cool, man. Well, thanks for sharing your story. It's the perfect ... it's like the evolution of a consultant pretty much, exactly has it happens. Like the done for you, then maxing out, then transitioning into courses, selling that. Now you're going to scale up to 100k a month. That's the way I've seen everyone do it, and you're doing it, and I'm sure you're going to be at 100k a month pretty soon.
Chris Wills: Yeah. We could do a second interview when I get there. Sure. See what I've learned. But no, it's definitely the evolution of a consultant when you look back at that, it is. And I think even I was like I can definitely outrank that. I could definitely scale outside of that and look at the 100k and go now I can beat that. I can elbow max out then, and then you get there and you're like, yeah, I'm maxed out. Probably people say that a lot. I said I know [crosstalk 00:56:27].
Sam Ovens: I made that mistake, dude. I thought I'll out-muscle it. I'll hire a team and build an agency. And I wish I didn't.
Chris Wills: Yeah. It's [inaudible 00:56:37]. I think everyone thinks that. I definitely thought I can hire people. It will be fine. Who cares? I'll be able to out-muscle it, and then I think in the beginning the allure of retainer is so, so high because it is like job money, but it's not a job money, and you can outsource it, and it's like this is the best thing ever. You're getting paid continually, and then when you move to coaching you find that you can just spend so much money in ads, you have a retainer anyway. And it is definite, and you're not having to do any work, so your time value per hour goes through the roof.
So I would say definitely if you're even thinking you're close to maxing out. Like we had Christy on yesterday. I watched her interview. She's maxed out at two or three clients with the copyrighting. At that point it's [inaudible 00:57:21] about going and taking something and going, "I need to do a course. I need to do something that's going to allow me to leverage." Because at that point, 100 grand a year is a good income but if you can go bigger, and I think the major thing I'll take from this. I think if most people if they don't grow bigger would regret it in five or 10 years.
Because if I wanted to, I could probably retire at 26. Five years from now I probably could retire if I tried. If I saved it and just invest in the right way, so if you don't go bigger, I think you'll regret it in five years from now. You don't actually try to leverage and just take the business as far as you can.
Sam Ovens: Cool, man. Well thanks a lot for coming on and sharing your story. I'm sure it's going to help a lot of people and I'm sure the Accelerator members are going to learn a lot from your story, so thanks for sharing.
Chris Wills: Hopefully they do, man. Hopefully they do.
Sam Ovens: Cool. Well thanks a lot. [crosstalk 00:58:06]
Chris Wills: Cheers.