[00:00:30] Hey everyone, Sam Ovens here and today I have Brandon Safford on with us. And Brandon has an awesome story. And he joined Consulting Accelerator around two years ago now. And back then when he joined he was only making around $100 per month, if that. So barely anything really. And then over the two years that he's been in there, he's grown his business to the point now where it's making around 80,000 per month, or more than that.
[00:01:00] And what Brandon does is he helps businesses who want to sell, sell. So he works with investors to try and find them the perfect business to buy for their investment interests and he also helps businesses who want to sell get aligned with investors who are looking to buy. And in this interview today we're gonna dig into that, see how he got started in this niche, and how he made such a rapid transformation from $100 a month to more than 80 grand per month.
So thanks for jumping on with me today.
Brandon Safford: It's my pleasure, Sam.
Sam Ovens: So, let's go back to two years ago when you're making 100 a month.
Brandon Safford: Sure.
Sam Ovens: What was going on then?
[00:01:30] Oh, long story short, the business I was working for laid me off because of a merger and so rather than find yet another job my family convinced me it was a good idea to try and start my own business. I had all the skills that I needed, at least I thought I did, and so I went ahead and went for it.
[00:02:00] The sad part is the one thing I did not know or accept at the time was that sales is absolutely essential for running a business, for having a business at all for that matter. Without sales all you have is an expensive hobby. So after months of failure, I would say about six months, like Sam said maybe about $100 a month, I had one real customer. And even that wasn't near what I'm making now, not even close. The rest were more like $50 sessions here and there for family or friends.
[00:02:30] I saw Sam's post on Facebook for the webinar. And I didn't have a whole lot going on that night. I went ahead and decided to check out the webinar. I think one of the first things you said that struck a chord with me is, "Are you still relying on hope marketing?" And that's exactly what I was doing. I was sitting there by the phone hoping it would ring. I'd never had it put quite so succinctly to me before.
[00:03:30] So I listened through the entire thing. What you said made a lot of sense, but I'm also very, very highly skeptical and, I'll be honest, Sam, my first thought was, "This is probably a scam." However, I'm very, very skeptical and you sold me so I figured okay, I can't sell to people if nothing else, if nothing else at all I can learn Sam's sales techniques then maybe I have a shot.
[00:04:00] I started taking the course and what I found was that it wasn't just sales techniques, it was a methodology, a step-by-step methodology of organizing what I do, why I do it, who I do it for, how much I'm gonna charge, how many customers I need to get per month, what I need to charge them in order to go forward. It changed everything. It completely changed everything.
[00:05:00] I got more and more confident as time went on. I got more and more customers. Pretty soon I was having a successful business. I would say it made about 100,000, little bit more than that, before I got offered a partnership with a business brokerage and decided to take my skills there. They were a perfect fit. I'm a data analyst by trade. So data analysis lends itself really well to business brokering. I have not looked back since. And I'm having a great time. I actually wake up now and look forward to what I'm doing. My preferred method of sales is cold calling despite the fact we do get leads from elsewhere. And I would say I can, thanks to Sam, I can close about 50% of all cold calls.
Sam Ovens: So sounds like you got scammed pretty bad.
[00:05:30] Yeah. Gosh, it was just terrible. I just can't imagine ... I can't imagine what it would be like without you, Sam. Well no I can imagine. I'd be broke. I would've lost everything. No, it-
Sam Ovens: So it's interesting what, to me then turns out to be really good for you, really beneficial for you and your business but you thought it was a scam. What do you think made you think it was a scam?
Brandon Safford: Sounded too good to be true.
Sam Ovens: What part about it?
The part of being successful, pulling in thousands of dollars a month, and having the level of success on there. You know I have seen both my sister and myself and others go for other things in the past. She did the perfume company, for instance. I think they went by Scentura Creations or whatever, I'm sure you've heard of them. I learned from her mistakes, I learned from others mistakes. But in the end I considered myself far too intelligent to be fooled. Unfortunately, that also translated to far too intelligent to accept when I was wrong and when I needed help. So, instead of intelligence it really ended up being arrogance more than anything else.
[00:07:00] I knew my skill. I knew it really well. I know it really well. Data analysis. I eat, sleep, breath it, love it. I know finances. I know financing really well. I got us our first house, as far as everything else, through very careful financial planning. Didn't know dink squat about sales. Didn't even occur to me that I would have to be really good at sales.
[00:07:30] You taught me otherwise. You taught me not only the value of sales, but how to apply it. How to refine it and redefine it every day really. Although now it's pretty much set as is until I up my niche from 20 million to 50.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And then let's talk a little bit about your niche and exactly what you do. So, we'll start with like who is ... like what is the niche?
Sure, sure. So, what I do is I help business buyers and sellers value the business at hand and establish a fair market price that is beneficial to both parties involved.
[00:08:30] Little bit longer version is I'm a certified business broker and partner with Business Acquisitions. And for the most part we deal with sellers of businesses with an annual revenue between one and 20 million dollars.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And then what's their problem?
[00:09:00] The problem for the sellers, one, is that they don't know how to sell their business. The other biggest problem is that they don't know what it's worth. You know if you go up to any business owner and ask if they wanna sell their business, they might say something to the effect of, "Oh sure, well if you give me a million dollars." Well, the reality is that figure that they throw out there is either gonna be too much or too little. If it's spot on that's a statistical anomaly. It doesn't generally happen. Where you might see an exception to that is an accountancy firm. And you would expect them to have a pretty good idea of their valuation, but even they sometimes don't.
[00:10:00] So I use several different methods of valuation to determine a fair market price, the best price I think the market will bear. If it's a seller and I'm their agent, then when a buyer ... After I've helped them obtain some perspective buyers and the buyer says, "Well, why do you want one and a half million for this business? Why is it worth that?" I can actually go down a list of items and say, "Okay, well, this is what you would be making inside of five years if you got bank financing. This is what you'd do if you got seller financing. This is if you have a risk price multiple." I can go through the different valuation methods, but I don't want to bore you unless you would like to know.
[00:10:30] But each of the valuation methods is not only formulaic, but it involves a lot of digging around, a lot of leg work, a lot of paper work. And I help to take care of that for them. And I think put it into a very attractive package called a, depending on who you ask, a certified, I'm sorry, a comprehensive business opportunity report or a confidential business opportunity report. But if you just say CBOR any broker will know what you're talking about.
[00:11:00] The CBOR is anywhere from a 30 to 50 page document that outlines what I just said, why the value of the business is what it is. But it also goes into the history of the business, why it's there, the potential demographics, the way that it could be improved upon. You could think of it as very long sales brochure to the perspective buyers.
[00:11:30] On the flip side, if you were looking to buy a business, and I acted as your agent, then I would help you to locate a business in the niche that you're looking for. If you wanted to buy a restaurant or if wanted to buy a plastics manufacturing, anything along those lines, I could find businesses that were for sale with those criteria. And then go through the valuation on them to see if the price they're asking for is justified. And if it's not, offer you a good counter offer to get that instead.
[00:12:00] Got it. So we understand the problem from the business owner's side is they wanna sell, they don't know how. But also they wanna sell and they don't know how much for. Right?
Brandon Safford: Correct.
Sam Ovens: Now what's the problem from the, because you kinda have a two sided market here. What's the problem from the business, or let's call them the investor's side?
[00:12:30] That depends on the investor themselves. Primarily it's that when a business goes up for sale it's typically very confidential. If you owned a restaurant and you decided you wanted to sell it, it would be sold confidentially in a private listing that people have to sign a waiver, I'm sorry, a nondisclosure agreement just to be able to find out the name of the business. That can involve a lot of time and effort, especially on the part of a buyer.
[00:13:00] So you will usually have ... Usually your buyers will fall into one of two categories. You'll have the individual buyer who has saved up some money and decided they wanna go into business. Or they want to expand their existing business, that they're generally just one person with a fixed amount that they can invest. And they may or may not need financing.
[00:14:00] And then you have the strategic buyer of some sort. These might be a private equity firm. They might be a large corporation that's decided to expand into a given area. But either way, they don't have the time generally or the know-how to go through the various listings, to get the confidentiality agreements gone through, and then value the business appropriately to determine if it's even worth it so they don't wanna end up buying a $100,000 business for $500,000. Unless it's a very long term business, but most of them are not going to wanna spend more than about two to three times the annual revenue on a business.
So, I assist them with both locating and evaluating prospects for their investment.
[00:14:30] Got it. And do you primarily work with like private equity shops or like private single investors, like people?
Brandon Safford: Right now as far as buyers go, I primarily work with the strategic buyers, either private equity firms or the large corporations looking to buy a number of places.
Sam Ovens: So you're doing like roll-ups or something.
Brandon Safford: Yes, yes, exactly. Exactly.
[00:15:00] Okay. So they're trying to like, so for example, if someone, let's say a private equity shop has a special interest in self storage. That's their thing.
Brandon Safford: Yes.
Sam Ovens: They wanna roll-up self storage companies into one big thing. You help them scout deals to buy.
[00:15:30] Yes. As well as evaluating those deals as well. And depending on the terms of the buyer, I will either get a contingency fee per acquisition, or alternately, I will be acting as the seller's agent and the buyer will be my primary go-to point of contact for the sale. Both are very beneficial, but believe it or not, the latter actually is more profitable because you do get more profit from commission than from a buyer's contingency fee.
Got it. So you're kind of like a recruiter, but instead of for humans, for businesses to purchase.
Brandon Safford: Sort of yeah. Or you could almost think of me as a real estate agent for businesses, but not to be confused with commercial real estate. I'm not dealing with the dirt, I'm dealing with the business above the dirt.
Sam Ovens: Got it. But a little bit of time in some businesses that might include the dirt.
Yes. Though interestingly, most buyers and most sellers prefer a lease as opposed to a sale of the dirt. I think it's because for the seller's side, it's an additional monthly draw that they can get. And for the buyer's side, it's a lack of liability that they don't have to absorb.
Sam Ovens: It doesn't really, it's not really the business. The business isn't the ground, you know.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And so-
Brandon Safford: In most cases.
Sam Ovens: And so you said before that you, you know you're good at doing all of the business evaluation and data analysis and all of that, but you didn't know how to sell.
Brandon Safford: Correct.
Sam Ovens: How ... Why do you need to know how to sell to be able to get clients in this space?
Well, for one thing, they have to be able to trust that you know what you're doing and that you'll take good care of them. They're also trusting the most intimate details of their business to you as well. These are not only their babies, but in some cases they might very well be a not entirely legal baby.
[00:18:30] With small businesses the way the tax laws are written, favors small businesses under reporting income and over reporting expenses, compared to large businesses where the tax codes are written to encourage them to over report revenue and under report expenses. So it is very, very, very unlikely that you'd come across a business in either market that has been 100% diligent with their financial paperwork. And people, especially smaller business owners, get very cautious and very skeptical, very suspicious about giving those kind of details out to anyone.
[00:19:30] So the ability to sell them on the fact that not only will you take good care of their baby's information, but that you know what you're doing and can establish a fair price, but that you can also get them a seller and that you're not scamming them at the same time. And that you're earning that commission because we make anywhere from eight to 12 percent, I average it out to 10, but it depends on the specific deal. But we make an average of eight to 10 percent. That is a considerable amount of money that they owner is not ... or that the seller is not taking home with them at the end of the day and they need to understand that it was worth that 10% for us to be able to do that amount of work for them.
So sales is, the ability of sales just absolutely essential. You're not just selling the business, you're selling yourself. You're selling your trust as well as the ability to solve their problem.
Got it. I guess the way I think about is if you're really good, don't you just tell them?
[00:20:30] Well, what was that story in the news a couple of years back about how Kim Jong-il was the best golfer in the entire world, in his own words. Did you believe it when you read it?
Sam Ovens: Yeah, but that's because it wasn't true.
Brandon Safford: Right, right.
Sam Ovens: But people seem to be able to tell when something is true or not.
[00:21:30] Some of them. You know it's ... Sales people, especially generally can. We have very good BS detectors because we have to both deal with it and utilize it sometimes ourself. Some people don't have good detectors, but if I were to just walk into a shop and say, "I'm good, I'm really good." Or, "Hey, I'm great, here's my references and what not." Telling them I'm good, even showing them my references, is not gonna get them to sign a listing agreement. If they're gonna sign the listing agreement, they're gonna do so because they trust me, not because I just say that I'm good.
And so selling that trust is integral to the business.
Sam Ovens: Got it. So it's basically just the way in which you communicate that you're good.
[00:22:30] Yep. It's that. And sometimes you have to nurse them along for a little bit. You know, it might take ... Sometimes it might take a month from the first point of contact where the strategy session goes well. They say, yeah okay I'm interested in selling. But I need some time to read over the agreement. And, you know, as opposed to ... Now this is one of the differences between your course and the way I do things now, I do actually give them that time to think it over because there are, when it comes to transactions of that size, especially when it involves the selling of a business they may have put years into, about half the time or more they are not going to decide right then and there to sign the listing agreement. Or at least they won't say that they've decided. Maybe they've decided, but they just wanna see how diligent you are over the next couple of weeks.
[00:23:30] But putting a couple of weeks to a month investment into just checking in on them, answering questions they have about the listing agreement or about the process, you know that can translate into a six figure paycheck. So I'm willing to put that time into it. The other reason is for legal reasons as well. Not every listing agreement is the same. So they may have specific legal questions that need to be answered, changes to the contract that need to be hashed out, things to that effect. We have to be very precise with that, otherwise, we could end up being liable for a substantial amount of money.
Sam Ovens: Got it. So, before you used to know the technical side of things and you knew the skill. And you could do it, but you didn't know how to make other people believe that you could.
Exactly. And I couldn't sell the benefit of it. You know I got into business brokering after the first business. And the first business was doing data science for small businesses. But when you got to a small business, like you said, they're not looking for a way to justify an existing budget, that's what large corporations do. They have a problem, something that's keeping them up at night that they need a solution to. And if you're not offering them a solution to that problem, not in a timely fashion or an affordable fashion or a correct fashion, one of those three things at least, they're not gonna pay you.
[00:25:00] So when I was first starting out, I would go to them and try and explain all the benefits of data science and what it could do for their company and it could improve production and stuff. And all they heard was blah, blah, blah, math, blah, blah, data science, blah. It wasn't until after your course that I found a way to package it into a solution for a problem that they had. And at the time, that was, at first it was marketing and then it went specifically into brand development.
[00:25:30] Once I had marketing and brand development down, and I had the sales experience from getting those customers, that was when I married those three skills, data science, marketing, brand development, and realized that the ultimate conclusion of that was business brokering. So that's where I went from then, went into business brokering. It's kind of been an evolution upwards of my niche over the last few years.
[00:26:00] Got it. And then, so you help these businesses sell. You help these investors buy businesses. What is the range of the size of the business? Like what is the annual revenue or what is their acquisition price that you deal with?
[00:27:30] Right. So the businesses that I deal with as far as sales go are between one and 20 million dollars annual revenue. Now that is gross, that is not net. The net we don't generally find out until we have earned their trust. You know any business can say we sell $5 million a year worth of product, but if they're being creative with their tax returns, then they might only show a profit of $15,000 at the end of the year. So part of that process is figuring out what their true net is. Handling something like add- backs for instance. Add-backs are an expense that the prior owner was charging to the company that do not get incurred by the new owner necessarily. So family vacations that got charged to the business, a brand new Mercedes for a company that a pickup truck probably would've made a lot more sense, or vice versa. Things to that effect. Personal expenditures, groceries, things like that. A lot of that can add up pretty quick.
[00:28:30] Now one of the reasons I'm doing the one to 20 million dollar niche now is because the add-backs are decreasingly proportional to the annual revenue. So when you're dealing with a smaller business, say something that makes $250, 000 worth of annual revenue, those add-backs can be a very significant portion of it because one person can pretty easily rack up a couple of hundred thousand dollars worth of personal expenses charged to the business per year. But once you start getting into the one to 20 million dollar range, those add-backs either become glaringly obvious and so they're easy to justify to the buyer, or they are bad enough to the point where we may question whether we wanna go forward with the deal, again for legal reasons.
Sam Ovens: Yeah I think the small companies tend to do a lot more of the personal expenses compared to more ... Like $20 million company I bet it has much cleaner books.
Yes. There's a term called the $10 million test. And what it basically boils down to is once a company is making more than $10 million a year in revenue, their books can generally be assumed to be clean. Or at least much more clean than below 10 million. So now of course you don't wanna go with just an assumption when you're buying a business, but there's a lot less scrubbing, due diligence, and risk involved when you get to that rate.
[00:30:00] Yeah, that's probably true with my business too. Once it got past 10 it's like everything was much more formalized and bookkeeper and processes to make sure everything's super clean. But I remember when I was a sole proprietor like my first year, you know I was like keeping receipts in a drawer, it was like the scrappiest damn thing you've ever seen. I don't even think you can call them books. Back when I was first starting. That took me like two weeks at the end of the year to figure out how much money I even made. I had no idea until the end of the year.
[00:30:30] That's not unusual, at all. And having seen your first office, I'm surprised you had a drawer, you know. I remember the picture of the garage that you were working out. What was it like a couple of cinder blocks and the plywood. I think. I can't remember what was on-
Sam Ovens: Yeah, that was the door.
[00:31:00] Oh it was the door. Yeah. And, but yeah, I mean look where you come since then. And it's the same way with every business, you know, and I did the same exact thing too. My books were an absolute mess, if I had books mainly what I had was a shoebox full of receipts, Post-it notes, little pieces of paper. So, yeah.
Sam Ovens: And, so how do you get your clients now? Like what's your new process?
So I split my time fairly evenly between following leads. We actually have, and if you don't mind my getting a shout out to them, we have a call center by the name of Custom Solutions in Colorado. They specialize in business broker leads. So they're very, very good at what they do. We've gotten very high quality leads from them. And, you know, I generally accept about two to three leads a week from them. They could provide more, but the sort of work that I do I can't have extremely high turnover. I'm not comfortable handling beyond about 10 listings at a time. So I'll follow through on those leads.
[00:33:00] And then from there I'll look at my strategic buyers and see what niche they're interested in. So as an example, I can't give specific names for confidentiality purposes, but there is a national after market auto chain that is very interested in expanding into the DFW area, Dallas-Fort Worth area. So what I would do as far as cold calls is I would look at the specific criteria, you know what's their curbside appeal? They don't wanna buy a shack. What does it look like the primary product is that they're selling? Is it repairs? Is it tires? It is auto parts? Is it customizations and what not? I'll find something that matches specifically what they're looking for and in this case it's tires.
[00:33:30] And then I will actually either pound pavement or I'll use Google Maps or Google and I will look through literally street by street of the city after looking up tire shops in the area, and see a storefront. I'll see that storefront and I'll say, "Huh, no that's a shack. Next." Or I'll see the storefront and say, "Mm, that's pretty attractive. With a new coat of paint and a new logo on there it could very well pass for our buyer."
[00:34:30] Say I find that. I'll do some digging into the company. I'll look at their website. I might go to the Better Business Bureau, look for news articles on them, things like that, try and find out more. Especially with regards to the owner. I'll eventually find out the owner's name and then I'll give them a call up, say the owner's name is Bob, and I'll say ... I'll call the shop up. If I don't have the owner's direct number, I'll say, "Hey, this is Brandon. Is Bob there?" And say, "Yeah, yeah, he's right here. Here you go." Or they'll say, "Yeah, can I ask what this is about?" And I'll say, "Oh, it's a personal matter." Or alternately I'll say, "It's a business matter." "Oh, okay. Here you go."
[00:35:00] Or if Bob isn't there, they'll give me his voicemail and I'll leave a message on the voicemail and most of the time I'll hear back from them. I don't get a lot of good response rate from emails. Were I to hazard a guess there's probably just something a lot more reassuring about a voice than there is an email. But I do actually get quite a good response off voicemails.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And so what are you saying to them? Like, "Hey are you interested in selling your business?"
[00:35:30] Yeah, generally. I mean, usually a bit more eloquent. Then it would be something to the effect of, if it was a strategic buyer that I have, then I would say, "Hey, Bob, this is Brandon. Real quick, I have a buyer who may be interested in purchasing your business. Do you have any interest in this? If not, I'll thank you for your time and head off." They'll either say, "No, I'm not interested in selling right now," "Okay, that's fine." And you go on to the next one. It does us both good because we don't need to waste each other's time, at that point there's plenty of others who are willing to sell.
[00:36:30] If they say, "Yes," or usually the response I get most often is, "All right, I'm listening." And so at that point I'll say, I'll give them more details. I say, "Okay, well here's the deal. We've got a national after market auto purchaser looking to acquire tire shops in the DFW area instead of building new ones and increasing the competition and flooding the market. They don't require any kind of financing because they've got rather deep pockets. I, myself, am a certified business broker and if you're interested in learning more, I would be happy to discuss it with you even now or at your convenience."
[00:38:00] Generally they'll say, "I'm still listening," so I'll go even further into it. I'll start breaking down the process for them. I'll let them know what they get in return for their money and their time and the effort. And I also make it clear to them that they aren't paying anything upfront. I collect upon a successful closing. And I'm very comfortable with that. There's a lot more money to be made that way. There's a lot more customers that sign that way. So I am ... That is also one spot where our processes differ a little bit. Which is fine because when I first started in the previous business, it was a monthly subscription, if you will, in order to get those customers. But the sale rate then was probably about 5% of the strategy sessions, as opposed to now where I would say it's closer to 40% of the strategy sessions. Actually I'd say 40 to 60%, it really just depends on the week and the industry. So sometimes I get better than half. Sometimes I get a little bit less than half.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And then why do these companies want to sell?
[00:39:00] That's a great question. It all depends on the owner, but generally there's some sort of a dream that they have of retirement. So either they want to spend more time with their grandkids, they're sick and tired of the hassle of dealing with owning and managing a business all day, they may love what they do. With all the auto shop owners that I've spoken to and the restaurant owners and everything else, they love working on cars, or they love cooking, they love what they do, they love their skill. They just hate running a business. Or maybe they didn't used to, but now they do. That's usually why. Usually they just don't want the hassle of running it anymore. Or, and/or, they're retiring and they wanna have a nice little nest egg to take with them when they leave.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And so that means that they're probably typically older business owners compared to brand new ones.
Yes, yes. That is correct. I would say currently our demographic is going to be 50 years or older and also, not by choice, but demographic wise they tend to be white and male. So older white males. The reason for it is fairly obvious, is before if you go back 30, 40, 50 years, the business owners who were owning were typically white and male. It's only been within the last couple of decades that we've really seen a large growth in women and minority owned businesses.
[00:40:30] So were I to hazard a guess I'd say in another, as the decades go on and the owners from the recent decades get older and wanting to get towards retirement, our demographic will shift and change completely. So yeah.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And what are you wanting to do, like, one year from now? Five years from now? What's your like vision and your big goal with what you're doing here?
[00:41:30] Another great question. My immediate goal is I want to save up enough capital that I can buy out my other two partners and have full ownership of Business Acquisitions. I would like to carry on with the founder's original vision which was to provide a much higher quality of service than what most business brokers out there are offering. But also to increasingly up its minimum revenue range. So, you know, maybe five years from now we're out of the one to 20 million dollar range and instead we're in the 20 to 50 million dollar range. Or the 50 to 250 million dollar range. So on and so forth. I want to grow Business Acquisitions to be nation wide as opposed to just four states because we're currently in four states.
[00:43:00] Beyond that, I would actually be interested in taking it world wide because one of the things that I've come to find out from several business owners is that there are a lot of countries where having a certified business broker and the valuation method are in very short supply. And those company, I'm sorry those countries have an enormous amount of companies that make a lot of money, but they ... It's a new enough economy that they don't have the decades, or in some case, centuries of experience and documentation to draw from. So that's one of the things that I may look into as well I opening up brokerages in countries that have very strong emerging markets. Both as sort of a altruistic thing, as well as a good risk, a good acceptable risk investment as well.
Sam Ovens: Got it. And what would you say has been the one most transformative part for you in the Consulting Accelerator Program?
Well, absolutely it was you. And your course. But specifically with the course it was the lightning bolt of clarity that came when you said that without sales there is no business. And I expanded it from there to it's just an expensive hobby at that point. Without sales there is no business. When that hit me, when that lightning bolt struck me it was as if the entire Earth changed business wise. Everything past that, that's flavor packets on my ramen. But, and some of them very tasty flavor packets.
Learning to define that niche. Learning to redefine that niche. Learning to evolve it into bigger and better things. Very, very useful, but the single most transformative thing for all of this was the realization that without sales there is no business.
Got it. And then what would your number one piece of advice be for other members in the program and in there community?
[00:46:00] Hmm, my number one piece of advice? Define your niche. Redefine your niche. Redefine it again. Always be evolving. Always be adapting. Be agile. That's the biggest advantage of a small business versus a bib business. You can be as agile as you want. You can go from niche A to niche Z overnight and you don't have any shareholders to answer to. All you have is yourself and your customers to answer to. Be agile. Always be evolving. And trust that Sam knows what he's talking about as far as sales. Thankfully I did and look where I am now.
Sam Ovens: Awesome. There's some good advice. Well thanks a lot for jumping on and sharing your story and looking forward to talking with you again soon when you're at that million dollar month mark and you've bought out those two partners.
Brandon Safford: Me too, me too. Maybe we'll see each other before then. I might take a trip up to New York here in the near future.
Sam Ovens: Cool. Awesome. Thanks a lot.
Brandon Safford: Pleasure's all mine, Sam. You have a great afternoon.
Brandon Safford: Okay-