Crossing the Chasm: How To Go From Nothing To Starting A Profitable Business
Sam Ovens & Mitch Miller
How do you go from knowing nothing about business to starting your own consulting business, getting a client and making a profit?
This is the journey/question that nobody has been able to solve.
The online training market is divided into two worlds:
1. Helping existing businesses grow 2. Presenting opportunities to people who want to start a business
The business opportunity market has a bad reputation (and for good reason). Most people believe that its impossible to go from knowing nothing to starting their own successful business and making a profit.
Whenever somebody say's that they can help somebody make this transformation they are met with extreme criticism and skepticism.
Is it actually possible to make this transformation?
And if so, how?
Sam Ovens and Mitch Miller discuss this question in depth and provide practical advice to anybody wishing to cross the chasm themselves.
Here's what we cover:
• Differentiation of Sam vs. Rest of market • Why belief in the system is crucial for success • How to be a consultant if you have no skills • What does a flower vase have to do with success in consulting • How to gain confidence when starting out • Achieving results by not focusing on the outcome • Why changing your environment brings profound changes
This is one video you do not want to miss!
Check it out and let me know what you think in the comments below?
Mitch Miller: The reason I wanted to have this conversation with you man, other than that people have been bugging me, is that we're shifting our business to, as everyone can see, to helping the beginner start an online business in different ways than consulting and using expert skills and things like that. I want to make sure my following knows who to go to. For those of you who don't know who Sam is, he owns Consulting.com, and his mission is to basically give back and help everyday people growing wildly profitable consulting businesses and live lives of freedom. His students have made over, I think, was it 400 million? All together that's what they've made, and he's just getting started. He's 27 years, but he's self-made. Scaled up his own consulting business doing this. I think, at this point, what have you made? 25 millionaires as a result of your stuff?
Sam Ovens: Yeah. That's what we know about. We've got video testimonials from that many, but we don't know the true effect. That's what we have documented anyway.
Mitch Miller: Check this out. 25 millionaires that he knows of. 451 who have made six figures. This one, which is the most interesting to me, 3,123 people have quit their jobs. Becoming a millionaire, that's a cool feeling, but it's not that cool. I'm the same fucking person, you know what I'm saying? It doesn't make a difference, but being able to quit my job, that changed everything for me. That's 3,123 people that you know of, obviously. There's probably a lot more to be honest.
What I wanted to ask you, bro, is questions that anyone who's interested in consulting, which is a ton of people, would normally have. I want to get your take on all this shit. There's so many people in the market obviously offering programs to consultants and all of that. Your results speak for themselves, and it obviously proves that you're the champ here, but what specifically makes your students get those results? Many people have programs. People don't do shit with them, but your students do stuff, and they review. Why do they get results, and why do most people not get results with other people's stuff?
Sam Ovens: That's a question I've been trying to figure out for like five years. It's not just one specific thing. It's a few different things, but I know that first and foremost it's the dedication that the leader and the product producer has to their craft. That sets a standard for the students. People who jump between lots of different things, they're saying, "Consulting," now, and then they're talking about Bitcoin and they're talking about Chatbox and they're talking about all of this stuff, it doesn't matter what the course says, the students look at their behavior. One thing that I always try to live by, it's a pain in the ass because it's annoying that it works this way, is that whatever you teach you have to do yourself. If you teach something and then you practice something else, no one's going to listen to that content. It's just going to go in one ear and out the other. No one's going to take any action. When you truly do what you're teaching, then it's just like some sort of thing just happens, and people do it and listen and take it seriously, and they implement it.
You really have to make sure that what you're putting in the program is aligned with what you're actually doing, and that what you're recommending to them as a course of action is what recommend to yourself and follow yourself.
Mitch Miller: I love that you said that.
Sam Ovens: There has to be that congruency there, because people don't just read the training. They're people. They observe things. It doesn't matter what the instructions say; they're going to look at what you're doing and how you're doing it. If things don't align, then they're going to think that it's flaky, and they're not going to pay any attention. That's different-
Mitch Miller: They won't take action. They won't do it.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. Really, who said it? Karl Marx. He said that "it's not the system, it's the belief in the system that makes it work." Really, any system can work, but it all depends on the belief in the system. When people buy these courses, pretty much all the systems would work provided the course is legitimate and it's not an actual scam where someone's invented a system that's never been tested and never worked.
Let's assume that these courses, they have systems in them that have been proven. It doesn't matter that the system works. What matters more is their belief that the system works. When they can see, when the students can see, that you yourself are implementing it and actioning it and you live by it, then their belief goes up exponentially. That's one huge thing. The leader has to display the right behavior, and it has to be congruent with the content.
Also, having a Facebook group. You want to have full transparency. It happened to me by chance. When I was first getting started in this sort of coaching, training, whatever you want to call it, business like four years ago or something, I was handling everything myself. People would e-mail me customer support issues, and I couldn't handle it. I was like, "All right. I'm opening up this Facebook group, and you ask your questions in here." I started it as just a method to centralize customer support about four years ago. Over time, over four years, that group really started to blossom. A culture started to evolve in there. That really has had a profound effect on the results. Now they see that not only I am living in alignment with the things and principles I put in the program, but that thousands of others are too, and they can see the results that they're getting.
Really, the social side of it is, I would say, it's equally important if not more important than the technical side of it. People have to see that it works, and people have to see that people are doing it. Otherwise, they're not willing to even take a bet on listening to the content and implementing it.
You know, when you listen to a course start to finish, you're taking a bit of a gamble on it, because you're investing a lot of your time. Our course at the moment's 120 hours. If you go through that whole thing, that's 120 hours of your time. You've also got to invest your money, but then to implement it and to actually build it into your life, that's weeks, months. Could even be a year or more. To really give it that, which is really what any course needs to work, people have to know that it's the right choice to place their bets on.
Mitch Miller: You're right, or it's just too much of a risk. I know it's the same when I do my content, and in my courses people take action. I've always wondered why. That's what I wanted to ask you. I think it's exactly what you said. It's the vibe and the proof and the social and that they can believe in it. Then, even when I do content, people say, "How the fuck can you come up with such amazing content all the time?" I say, "Man. It's from experience. I've been through that same thing 800 times in 18 different ways. Of course, I can come up with a million ways to talk about it." Other people can't if they haven't done it, and people feel that if you're just touching the surface and you don't go deep.
Someone wants to be a consultant, this is classic, but they have no skills, and they're like, "I want to be a consultant, but I have no fucking skills." Should they go get skills? If so, which ones to get, or do they maybe already have skills they don't realize, or is this consulting game for people who already have some sort of skill? Then, I think I said this already, but if they can build skills, which we all know the answer to that, which ones should they build?
Sam Ovens: That's a really good question, because most people think, "Oh, I need skills to become a consultant," but you really don't. That's like saying, "I need to skills to be a human." You're a human first, and then you get skills. You can become a consultant and then get skills at the time. To become a consultant, it's a decision. You're like, "I want to be one. Now I am." Now, what am I going to learn? What I am going to improve, because it never stops. You never have skills, and then that's it. You've got to constantly evolve your skills. It's not like a binary switch: "Has skills. Doesn't have skills." It's an ever-evolving process.
Really, in the modern world today, it's not a question of learning. Anyone can learn some skills and get good at something. It's not a question of learning. It's a question of what to learn. That's really the most important thing. You've really got to develop a really good system to figure out what to learn.
Mitch Miller: Why do people get so hung up on that? In classic business, they can't pick a niche, they can't pick a product. They go into consulting; they can't pick a fucking skill.
Sam Ovens: That's probably the biggest part of our entire training is how to help people do that. In the past, I didn't know how to do that. It was a very complex area, and I couldn't wrap my head around it. We just helped people who had skills and who had existing consulting businesses. We helped those people get more clients. That was pretty easy, because they came with the business and the skills, and all I had to do was teach them how to sell better, how to package their services, price better, do some marketing funnels, things like that.
Mitch Miller: Just throw some fuel on the fire.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. That was pretty easy, but that's a limited market. There's only so many people with a business that want help. To really scale, we really had to tackle the hard problem that no one else would tackle. That was how do you teach, I call them civilians ... How do you teach civilians how to start their own consulting business? Not just start it, but actually get a client to make money? Which is such a huge transformation. This is someone who doesn't know anything about business. Probably hasn't done an accounting class. Probably doesn't know what an asset or profit is. You've got to take that person to the point where they have a paying client, and they're making money.
That problem has taken me I'd say five years to master, and we've finally got it now. We've got it dialed in so that someone can actually do that, and they do it systematically and reliably all the time. First of all, people have to understand that they don't need to have a niche or skills or business experience. That's what the program teaches them how to do. The hardest part is to do their part. They shouldn't do their part on their own without a framework and then join the course, because the course shows them how to do their part, which is the most difficult part.
Really, that's like a mind trick. You don't have all that stuff and then join. You join and then that's what we help you figure out. How we do that is it all starts off by them picking a niche. People get really hung up on this. We don't tell them what niche to pick on purpose, because we don't want to create any form of bias. I've observed that every information product and program that's ever recommended the niche has imploded because those people just do it. The opportunity evaporates. Then all those people can teach other people is how to do what they just did, which is copy this thing.
Mitch Miller: Dude, that literally just happened to me with a lead magnet. I gave an example. I said, "Don't use this example. This is just an example," and they all did it.
Sam Ovens: Of course they did.
Mitch Miller: They all did the example.
Sam Ovens: If you tell someone not to do something, they're more likely to do it. It's a real good psychology thing when you tell someone not to do something. It's like when they banned "Atlas Shrugged." It was like, "Do not read this book." It's like world's best seller. It's honestly-
Mitch Miller: My ad for my book is, "Ban this book. This is the mainstream praise you never did."
Sam Ovens: It's even better when the mainstream actually bans it. It's like NWA. They banned that record, which had "Fuck the Police" and stuff on it.
Mitch Miller: Incredible. Snoop Dogg was like on trial for murder at the time.
Sam Ovens: They banned that record, and what do you know? Best selling record in the US. It works really well, but that's why you've got to be careful with telling people ... What I used to do is also like, "Here's a list of like 30 niches, but don't pick these niches." I noticed everyone just picked those niches. I was like, "All right. All right. I'm not going to recommend anything." People were like dying in the program because we wouldn't give them a liferope on that. I just sat and they struggled.
Mitch Miller: The thing they want the most.
Sam Ovens: They eventually come to it. It's because it's hard. You've got to search for your own salt. The longer I've been doing this, the more confidence I have to sit back and just let people ride out their own storms without jumping in and interfering all the time. The way I view it now is it's like an organism that's evolving. An organism might face some bacteria or something, and it might get a virus. It has to figure out how to morph and adjust itself and mutate to fight that and combat it itself. If you jump in and you jab that organism with some penicillin or something, it clears the virus. That virus is going to come back at some point, and it's not going to have developed the antibodies to conquer it. It's going to wipe it out. You really have to let people go through these. It's natural. It's how life works. The person is alive, and if they're in the program, they're probably at least 25 plus or something. If they're alive, and they're 25 plus, then they've lived through lots of things, which they've had to figure their way through.
Mitch Miller: Sorry to cut you off there. Once they figure it out on their own, isn't that a much stronger position that they can believe in what they're able to do because they had to find it truly themselves?
Sam Ovens: Yeah. The different is night and day. It's something that's theirs now. This is the thing that I've learned is that if you look at something like a vase, when they make a vase, they don't put the flowers in it and fix it a special way thinking that people want it like that. A vase is something which people buy, and then they add their own personality to it. That's what makes it work. I started to view my program like that. I've started to view it as a framework that other people could add their own personality and things into to get a result. That was really the key, because it's like DNA. There's an X and a Y, and our program is the Y. When we combine X, which is them, with Y, we get infinite variations of XY. Most programs, they force the evolution. They do just still X, and they provide X. They're just producing XX. Then what happens is all those people know how to produce is XX. Then all those people who they teach know how to produce is XX.
This is how we get these incestuous communities that eventually just blow up, because there's no variation. It's like in nature if you look at any species, the more cross-breeding that goes on, the stronger the species. The less cross-breeding, the weaker it is. Ultimately, if it inbreeds, which is no type of variation at all, it will get sick and die.
Mitch Miller: Very quickly.
Sam Ovens: That's the same with your program. You just have to view it through that lens.
Mitch Miller: You almost had to do this out of necessity in order to even scale your own business, so it doesn't implode on itself.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. I mean, it's not even just so it doesn't implode on itself. It's so that it works for the people. If you teach someone how to start a digital marketing business, it's so competitive. You've got to be really good to make it happen. If you take someone ... I'll give you a perfect example. We had a guy, and he joined the program, and he came in and he just picked that ... He was thinking to literally. He thought, "I will pick real estate as my niche, and I will help them with digital marketing," because real estate is a big, well-defined niche, and digital marketing is something everyone needs.
Then, it just bombed. He couldn't get any attention. Couldn't get any clients. He wasn't passionate about it. Then, I spoke with him, and I was like, "Dude. This niche sucks." I was like, "How did you come up with this?" Then I was like, "You must have something." We're talking about him and what he knows and everything, and then he came back to me the next day. He was like, "I think I've got it." Then he goes, "It's porn addiction." I was like, "Now we're talking." I was like, "Tell me about it."
He said, "Well, like a few years ago, I was addicted to porn, and it almost ruined my life and my marriage. Then, I was able to come out of it. I repaired my marriage, and I completely fixed it." He was like, "I think this should be my niche." I was like, "Fuck yeah."
Mitch Miller: That's solid gold.
Sam Ovens: I was like, "This is cool." Then he does that. First month, six figures. He's crushing it now. He'll be a seven figures probably end of this year. It's because it's different. Every time we can get a good, unique variation of XY, we see the person just crush it.
Mitch Miller: You made him go inside to find that answer. It's like the typical thing with consultants. It's like, "Dentists. I'm going to do marketing for dentists." It's like, "Dude. Come on."
Sam Ovens: I don't have the answer to that side of the equation. All I can bring is Y, and if I try to give you X, it's going to be wrong because I can't give you that thing. You have it, and so it's giving people a framework and a methodology that they can use to find out what that is and then go with it. Giving them enough confidence to do that without hand holding them and giving them exact instructions to follow.
Also, a lot of people think that they need to pick the perfect niche right away, but in every case I've seen pretty much, the person picks the wrong niche first. Even with Hunter. The guy, his name's Hunter Otis, who started the ... His website's becomingpornfree.com, and he did that. That guy. He started off with real estate. Me, I started off by picking like four wrong things before I found the right one.
Mitch Miller: Yeah. Me too.
Sam Ovens: My best case study I've got, Andrew Argue, who's now at like a million a month, he started off by picking the wrong thing too. If we look at all of these things, pretty much everyone picks the wrong thing, and then by doing that, they determine what the right thing is. When I really looked at that, I was like, "Well, I'm being pretty hypocritical if I tell people, 'You've got to get your niche and all this.'" I now encourage people not to overthink it too much. To just come up with what they think should be their niche and then just start, because if you pick the wrong one, that's good. If you can determine that something is wrong, then you're closer to determining what right is.
Mitch Miller: You can analyze why it feels wrong or why it was wrong.
Sam Ovens: In order to say something's wrong, then that implies that you must know what's right. It's like you wouldn't know what darkness is without like, and you wouldn't know what hot is without cold. You need to try something. If it's wrong, that's good, because now you're closer to determining what right is.
When I figured that out and I kept my hands of ... I call it, the Garden of Eden, which is like people in my program, and they're in the Garden of Eden, and they're evolving. They're going to come out, and they're going to have all of these awesome evolutionary streams. You've got to be careful as a coach or as a content, I don't know, whatever you call someone like me, not to put your hands in the Garden of Eden. You don't want to interfere too much. You've got to kind of keep back, because people need to fail and struggle a little bit themselves and pick themselves up to really evolve properly.
I think, so many people, they're way too nervous and way too jittery that as soon as they see someone struggle or pick the wrong thing or something, they just jump in and interfere.
Mitch Miller: Yeah. I get you. THat's almost like the overprotective parent that never lets the kid fall.
Sam Ovens: Yeah, or the parent that always puts Purell on their kids' hands and doesn't let them just eat dirt and stuff.
Mitch Miller: Doesn't allow them to have sleepovers.
Sam Ovens: By eating dirt and all of those germs and stuff that a kid does, it's like building up antibodies to bacteria. When the parent intervenes and over-sterilizes the child, the kid has no way to defend themself when they're older against viruses and bacteria. You've really go to view it. I pretty much view all of these different people in my program as just different organisms in this incubator. I'm providing them with a really good DNA strand, and they're combining it with their own. Then they're growing out.
Mitch Miller: I love it. Here's another big one, man, is like the chicken and the egg dilemma that people feel and how to break them out of the thought process of that. A lot of people, what stops them from even getting into this consulting thing, is they're just like, "You know what? I need the experience to feel confident enough to go close deals and that kind of stuff and get clients. However, I need the confidence to get the experience." It's like the chicken and the egg. How do you address that type of thinking?
Sam Ovens: The confidence?
Mitch Miller: With the chicken and the egg of needing the experience to feel confident but then needing the confidence to get the experience or they get stuck.
Sam Ovens: What we do there is, first of all, the first stage of gaining confidence is just learning. People think you either have confidence in something or you don't, and if you don't have confidence in it, then you shouldn't do that. If someone doesn't know how to fly and airplane, and then we challenge them with the task of flying a Cessna to the Bahamas, they're not going to be confident. If they are, then they're an idiot, because they're going to die. That's why we have this built in mechanism of confidence, because if we don't have any, it probably means we shouldn't be doing it. It's because we need to practice it first. We need to learn. The first stage of developing confidence is just learning. Finding the right material and learning it. That's what we teach in the program. That's why they go through a lot of training.
Once you learn a whole bunch, in theory, because all learning really is is theory, and once you understand everything in theory and you've got the concepts and frameworks and everything in your mind and all of the arguments add up logically and you get it, it just clicks ... It just clicks in theory. That brings you to a nice peak of confidence, but often that's not enough to actually go into the real world and try testing your theory in practice. We found that there was this divide between we could teach people and get them really confident in theory, but they still couldn't make the jump themself to practice. Then we built in really just this year a second layer, which was simulating the real world.
What we do is we get everyone in the program to partner up with someone else and practice sales calls. One person will be the prospect, and one person will be the buyer. They tell the person how new they are, how many practice calls they've done, and how difficult they want the prospect to be on them. The better they get, the more difficult they want the simulated experience to be.
People in our program go through the three stages. The first one would be the learning. The second one would be simulation, and they stay in that simulation until they're really confident. It might be 10, 20 calls or whatever. It's amazing how much difference this simulation makes. Once you've combined the theory and the simulation, you're ready to go. I've never seen a case where someone has done learning and simulation and hasn't had the confidence to approach the real world. Then, from that stage, they go to the real world. Then they iterate and improve there as well.
A lot of these things I'm talking about, they took like five years to figure this shit out, because it's one thing to do it yourself and achieve success. It's a whole other thing to teach it to a civilian.
Mitch Miller: Especially if some of it's unconscious like when I try to teach copywriting. Man, it's such a struggle. I try to come up with different tools and such, but when you do something even remotely naturally, or if you've done something on autopilot for years, it's hard to go back and pull that out for people.
Sam Ovens: You have to reverse-engineer how it actually went for you, and it actually was way messier that you can remember. You know what I mean? Sometimes when things click for you, you think, "Oh. The jump from A to B was actually pretty easy," but it's often not. Trying to piece together how that happened, it's quite a challenge. It's like Michael Jordan trying to piece together how he became Michael Jordan.
Mitch Miller: That's right. That's right. Very difficult to remember those ... I remember even trying to learn some copywriting stuff. I'm looking back, and I look back, and I remember. I was like, "Oh wait. I did go through that course. Oh wait. I have wrote that course six times in Miami. I forgot I fucking did that." You forget you did all these things, and you just maybe think that you always had it. You forget that you did those hardcore things so long ago.
Here's another big one, man. As a consultant, obviously any kind of neediness or desperation will kill you. I think there's a couple things at play here. When you're providing the systems in order to bring in leads, and you're helping them do that, and they get to do the simulations, I guess it's like the entire ecosystem that you provide ... That's the number one thing that I notice with consultants who need the money is they come off like they need the money. Then, of course, last thing the client wants to do when he feels that is give somebody money. Do you notice that as an issue when people go through your system, and, if so, do you have a way that you like to address that and help them understand in their mind how to look at it?
Sam Ovens: I tell the person to ... As a human, you choose where to place your focus, right?
Mitch Miller: Yeah.
Sam Ovens: Where that focus is placed is extremely important. It will determine the outcome. If you've ever been in the gym, and you just start thinking about something else, you'll notice that you just pretty much pause what you're doing or you'll make a mistake with what you're doing or something. If you're walking out in the street and you start thinking about daydreaming like you're just kind of walking the wrong way, wherever you put your focus is key to the outcome that you'll achieve. What I've found that most people do is on the sales call, they've got all of their focus 100% concentrated on the person saying, "Yes," and buying. That fucks up the whole call.
It's like someone going onto the ... It's like Michael Jordan going onto the NBA court and having all of his focus on the end result of the game. In sports psychology, they'll tell you that is absolute worst thing you can do. Your focus has to be on here and now and on what's immediately in front of you. On the call, I tell people to move their focus from getting a yes to an accurate diagnoses. With doctors, a prescription without diagnoses is like malpractice, right? Most sales people, they're pretty much doctors. Their sales call is inspection. Then, at the end, they write a prescription. It might be for what they have, or it might be not be. Most people think that, "I just want to write a prescription for fucking everyone." They're like, "This is just all bullshit until we get to the end." Then that's not how it goes.
If you want to get the sale, you focus on the diagnoses. If you go and do all of that properly, the sale happens. It's really about moving your focus and detaching from the yes. Forgetting about it. Winning a basketball game doesn't happen by focusing on the end result. It happens by focusing on playing really well in every single moment of the game.
Mitch Miller: Being the moment. Being present with the person and people that you're actually with and listening. If you're focused on the result, you're not listening.
Sam Ovens: I tell my people to close their laptop screen. Don't be on your phone. Don't be doing anything else. Just channel 100% of all of your conscious attention onto that person. People know when you do that. When you do that, it works. When you really give them everything you've got and you listen to every work, you take notes, and you thoroughly ask questions and you diagnose whether you can help for not, people notice that.
Mitch Miller: Literally, anyone listening to this, anyone who is willing to learn and is willing to have the patience and to follow directions and be honest with themselves can literally start a consulting business, which is amazing that you created that. It's so cool that you can create something that anyone can do; not just somebody who already has a skill. Do you have a few examples that may be inspiration to somebody who is thinking of getting started as a consultant? Maybe a few success stories that are kind of cool to talk about?
Sam Ovens: Sure. There's the Hunter guy you started a porn addiction consulting business. He's six figures in his first month. Within his first year, he'll be a seven figures. There's Andrew Argue who used to be an accountant at PricewaterhouseCoopers, and he quit. He started his own digital marketing agency as a generalist helping all different niches. Then, when he joined my program and started working with me, I got him to focus on accounting and specifically helping firms because he understood those. He knew both worlds, and now it's evolved into him pretty much helping people who work at firms to quit and start their own private accounting practices. He's making like a million a month. He's the best case study I've got. He's the only one we've got to eight figures.
Mitch Miller: As an aside, what made the different? What was he willing to do that, say, the seven figures weren't willing to do?
Sam Ovens: He was willing to do anything. If I told him to do something, he'd do it. He doesn't care how painful it is.
Mitch Miller: No excuses. Just get it done.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. Recently, this year, I wanted to really try and improve my performance as much as possible, so I got a chef, and I moved a personal trainer into my house, into my apartment. They live with me and observe me all the time and make sure I go to sleep on time, make sure I wake up on time, make sure I eat properly, design my meal plan. Literally just everything because I know that trying to self-discipline is extremely hard, and so it's better to just get someone else to discipline you. It's a huge help.
Mitch Miller: I think Gary Vaynerchuk said that that one time too. He said something like, "If he didn't want to let other people down ..." He could easily let himself down, but he couldn't let someone else down who was in the room with him.
Sam Ovens: It's so important. I learned this from watching documentaries on the best athletes in the world like Usain Bolt and all of them. I would always beat myself up that I couldn't self-discipline myself properly, and I kept thinking, "I'm fucking weak" and all of this. Then I watch Usain Bolt's documentary, and this dude doesn't want to wake up on time. He's in bed. He's like, "Just let me sleep in." He's like, "I don't want to eat this food." He's like, "I don't want to do this." It's like he's just like every other person, but the only thing that makes him who is is the people he has around him.
Mitch Miller: That's crazy. [inaudible 00:38:41]
Sam Ovens: When I saw Usain Bolt couldn't do it, I was like, "Of course I can't fucking do it."
Mitch Miller: You probably always thought like there's that one thing. Like, "I can have discipline in my business or whatever and this and that, but there's always that one weak area." It doesn't have to be at all.
Sam Ovens: I thought Usain Bolt would be just super disciplined and just bam up, but no one's like that.
Mitch Miller: That's so cool to know that he doesn't want to fucking get up or he doesn't want to eat that meal that he has to eat. That's totally cool.
Sam Ovens: Where I was going with this, the original question was like, "What did Andrew do, and what was he willing to do?" I mean, when I do something like that and I share it with him, he's like, "I'm doing that." Now he has a chef, and now he has a trainer. You see, he's the best student I've ever had. Most people, they won't do it all, or they'll argue with it, or they'll try and twist it around and reason that they don't need it or anything. Andrew will do things I don't even ask him to do. He just will do whatever it takes.
Mitch Miller: That's what it takes. Those of you guys listening, if you want to be a consultant, if you want to do this thing and have freedom, just ask yourself, "What am I still not willing to do?"
Sam Ovens: It comes in stages. When I first got started, I still had a social life where I would keep up my appearances, and I still worried about what other people thought, whether I was cool or not, and what clothes I wore, and whether I was going to do the parties and the bars and all of that. I tried to balance the two, which was extremely hard. I wasn't willing or able really to give that up until after like two years. You don't have to give everything immediately. It's very hard, because it's your whole life.
Mitch Miller: Usually you just bounce right back. You just binge whatever version that means to you.
Sam Ovens: All of these things are just different ... Addiction happens to everything. It's not just drugs. It happens to everything. You're always going to relapse, even if you decide to stop eating sugar or decide to start going to the gym. It happens the same way. The easiest way to change is to change your environment. I just moved. I moved from New Zealand to New York, and then it just happened.
Mitch Miller: Fascinating. It's just the change. It's not like you think you moved to New York, it's like there more distractions. There's more stress because of the added stress of you moving. Whether or not you feel stressed, there's the organisms stressed, yet it was the change of scenery which changed it up for you enough to be able to make those changes?
Sam Ovens: Yeah. Every time we've got a person who's at a plateau, we get them to pretty much move house. Move into something bigger, because it's the easiest way. It's just like a little hack. When you shake up your environment, you lose all the old habits and everything, because all the stimulus isn't there to trigger the different responses. We've noticed this too in hiring. The best hires are all people who relocate.
Mitch Miller: Interesting. This is fascinating because-
Sam Ovens: The further distance that they travel to relocate, the better.
Mitch Miller: They say that the older you get, the more difficult it is for you to change, and that usually it takes some sort of trauma to be able to shake you out and make a change. Do you think the relocation is enough for the trauma? Sounds like it could be like a hack. You don't have to divorce your wife and beat a dog in order to have some sort of trauma. It's like the relocation could even be enough to shake people up.
Sam Ovens: Yeah. Easy. That's why we try to hire people who aren't from New York. You can see why Google gets people from all over the world, because when a person moves, it's like their identity starts fresh again. You'll see this phenomenon happen when you observe universities or colleges. When someone attends a college in their local city, they never become a part of the culture, and they just kind of go in, do their class, get out. They never get involved with the culture and the community. When someone relocates for college, they get all in. Is the same phenomenon at work. It's like when you change your environment you have to join the new one. When you're already in a city and then you go to that, you've already got your life there, and this is just a little thing that you have to do and then get back to your life. You know what I mean?
Mitch Miller: That's so huge. That's so huge for people who are stuck in unsupportive environments thinking they're going to be able to grind through. Almost impossible.
Sam Ovens: If you're in a real, real, real toxic place, it's very, very hard to do anything. Anyone who's in a real toxic place, I'd just get the hell out.
Mitch Miller: You'd have to. Even if you're trying to lose weight, and everyone in your house, in your family, is overweight and they're eating nachos, they're going to keep you down man. You've got to get out of that house. The odds of you being able to withstand that for longer than a week or be able to change them, God help.
Sam Ovens: It's true. My biggest jump in my own personal development happened when I gave up the old me. I didn't care what anyone thought about me. I didn't got to any parties. I wasn't with my same group of friends. I didn't stop being friends with them. They're still my friends. We still chat and everything, but I'm in the scene anymore. You know what I mean?
Mitch Miller: Yeah. Exactly. You're a step away.
Sam Ovens: I don't have a scene. I'm like technically uncool right now.
Mitch Miller: I love it. We got to pop off here guys. Anyone who's interested, which should be everybody listening, if you want to become a consultant, if you're already dabbling your toes into the consulting area and you want to actually finally step it up and hit eight, six figures a month, extremely possible, then consulting.com. Right?
Sam Ovens: Yep.
Mitch Miller: Killer. Consulting.com, and you can check out Sam's story, all the stuff they got going on, and whether you want to be a part of it. Thanks bro. Thanks for chatting with me.
Sam Ovens: No problem.